Talk:Sinh (clothing)

Not restricted to Laos and Thailand

This garment is commonly seen also in Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China. I would guess also in other areas where the Dai ethnic minority of China live. It's also vaguely possible that a similar garment may exist in Dai / Tai / Tay areas of neighbouring Myanmar and Vietnam or in Buyi and Zhuang areas, who are the next closest relatives of the Dai. — Hippietrail (talk) 11:03, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Name change

I think this article name became "sinh (clothing)" so as to avoid the religious word "sin". The word "sinh" makes no sense. I propose changing the name to "Sin (clothing)", or "Phasin" which seems to be favoured by The Bangkok Post, or the RTGS transliteration "pha sin". By keeping the name "sinh" we are slowly introducing this name to the world as people are copying WP. Opinions welcomed. Seligne (talk) 11:47, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

I always assumed it was the common spelling in Lao-oriented sources. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:12, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Paul, lots of regional variations. Speaking to older Thai ladies, one from BKK tells me they use the term "pha tung", not "pha sin" which they say is CM/Chiang Rai usage, perhaps Isan usage also. She said that using the "sin" formulation without the "pha" is not done. I am going to a fabric shop in the market to ask around. See Talk at "Chang kben" also. These fabrics are a can of worms. Seligne (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

The regional variation is a different issue, I'd say. The question here is how to spell it in English. The article creator, Alifshinobi, is very knowledgeable in the Thai/Lao languages and can probably provide some explanation. --Paul_012 (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

@Paul 012: I am sorry for the late reply. The spelling with the final h can be found in books such as Seitz, R. (1980). Village life in Laos. World Health, (July 1980), 21-24. and Tagwerker, E. (2009). Siho and Naga--Lao Textiles: Reflecting a People's Tradition and Change. Peter Lang.

"A woman weaves cloth that will become a sinh, the long skirt that is the national dress in Laos" (Seitz, 1980).

"These are their Sinh; they are of pure silk, hand woven, with all sorts of patterns" (Tagwerker, 2009).

You can go to Google Scholar to read some of these books as well as related articles. Personally, I do not think it is a bad idea to add "(also spelled sin)" in the current entry.

My response to @Seligne:

"Speaking to older Thai ladies, one from BKK tells me they use the term 'pha tung', not 'pha sin' which they say is CM/Chiang Rai usage, perhaps Isan usage also." - Yes, it is "sin" (ซิ่น/ᩈᩥ᩠᩶ᨶ) in Northern Thai (คำเมือง) and Isan (as well as in Tai languages in nearby cities/states like Shan and Tai Khuen).

"She said that using the "sin" formulation without the "pha" is not done." - She might have meant "not usually done", but I am not sure why she would say that. We Thai speakers do not speak the same way. It makes sense to me to use "pha" with "thung" because "thung" by itself means "bag." Anyway, based on my Google searches, "นุ่งซิ่น" (literally "wear sin") comes up more often than "นุ่งผ้าซิ่น" (literally "wear pha sin") in thairath.co.th/news/.--A.S. (talk) 01:51, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Looking at the Thai and Lao Wikipedias could be instructive here. The Lao article is at ສິ້ນ and the Thai article is at ซิ่น. Neither have pha or any other classifier. If they don't feel the need to include it, we shouldn't either. Additionally, sinh is the common English term and spelling. FWIW, writing final /n/ as "nh" is colloquially very common. Just do google searches for "Salavanh", "Phongsavanh", "Paksanh", etc. (or "sinh", for that matter). As for this article's possible influence on spelling, it was created in 2013; limiting google and google scholar searches for "sinh cloth laos" to dates prior to 2013 yields thousands of results. So it is fairly evident that this article was originally titled "sinh" because it is the common English spelling, not the other way around. For an academic transliteration of the Lao, sin is appropriate, but when discussing it in English, sihn is correct.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 03:39, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to all for interest and expertise.Seligne (talk) 07:55, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

filipines

What is sihn cloth of cambodia? 112.210.226.128 (talk) 02:53, 11 September 2022 (UTC)