Talk:Sister Boom Boom

Do not add "American Nun" as a Category

Unless this person is a Catholic nun, it is very much NOT APPROPRIATE to add "Sister Boom-Boom" as an American "nun". 72.234.33.17 10:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Sister Boom Boom was an American nun as are all nuns who are American - Catholic or not. Benjiboi 08:53, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Sister Boom Boom was not a nun. She was one of several personae used by a female impersonator, and as such was never a living person but rather a fictional character. One might as well list Sally Fields' old TV character "The Flying Nun" as an American nun, or list Brother Cadfael under "Medieval monks". Fictional characters who are portrayed as nuns are not to be confused with actual living women who take religious vows and live out their lives as nuns. If you want to list her as an "American nun", I expect you to:

• Tell us what religion she sincerely professed (preferably a real one that actually includes nuns).
• Show us that Sister Boom Boom sincerely took vows prescribed for nuns by that faith.
• Tell us what religious order - or the equivalent for non-Christian faiths - accepted those vows. (If her faith was "Catholic" - and by the persona's trappings that is clearly what was intended - you've got a big problem there, because no Catholic order accepts transgender nuns, or is ever likely to.)

If you can't satisfy those requirements, cut the crap and accept that Sister Boom Boom was not an American nun. However, I'm perfectly fine with categorising her under "Fictional nuns". I have no particular brief for respecting or disrespecting Catholicism, or for respecting or disrespecting drag performers, but I do have a very strong brief for respecting the intelligence of Wikipedia readers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.25.56 (talk) 18:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. I'm looking at the article, by the way, and I can't help but wonder to what extent a performance artist's persona, no matter how famous it may be, qualifies as a "living person". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.25.56 (talk) 18:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

There are many nuns who are not Roman Catholic or even Christian. The category of American nun applies here. Fictional nun does not, since this is a real living person. Jonathunder (talk) 18:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The only other type I can think of are Buddhists. All other Nuns exist to worship God, "nun" exists to mock. The objection is logical and I support it. - Schrandit (talk) 19:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I object strongly to removing Category:American nuns. The definition of Nun states that it is someone "who has taken special vows committing her to a religious life". And from Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the Sisters are "leading-edge Order of queer nuns". It continues that they "have devoted ourselves to community service, ministry and outreach to those on the edges, and to promoting human rights, respect for diversity and spiritual enlightenment". -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:49, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to have to respond with a "come ooooooooon". This is a social group on a good day, a collection of anti-social bigots on a bad one, all references to religion are in jest. - Schrandit (talk) 23:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, they're all women, this is a dude. - Schrandit (talk) 23:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

First of all, your gender awareness is simply appalling. Sisters present as female - end of that discussion. Some of them are male-bodied, some are female-bodied - that isn't the point at all.

Second, this is an organization that raises and gives out thousands of dollars every year to charitable organizations, not to mention ministering to the gay (and straight) communities about AIDS. To call them any sort of bigot whatsoever is simply wrong. They *are* nuns, short and simple.

Third, many of the sisters I know are *keenly* religious. Their references to religion are as heart-felt as any fundamentalist christian you can point to.

Furthermore, the citations back up that Sisters are nuns. See [1] for reliable sources. By Wiki-policy, that trumps any bad feelings you may have about Boom Boom or any of the other sisters. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

"A nun, also known as a sister in some cases, is a woman who has taken special vows committing her to a religious life."

• I'm not particularly interested in what they present themselves as - if they are men then they are men, Jack is decidedly a man.
• Giving money does not a religion make.
• I'm not terribly interested in what the Harvey Milk Institute thinks about them - Nuns are by definition women and this is a man. - Schrandit (talk) 23:39, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

{outdent} Please read Gender.

Furthermore, *you* may not be interested in what the Harvey Milk Institute says, but it is a reliable source. And if that doesn't hold up for you, how about [2] - The San Diego G&L News, the Dallas Voice, or Oregon Live? Find me a reference that says the Sisters are *not* nuns. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm very interested in the fact that nobody is addressing the objection that a persona adopted temporarily by a performing artist, solely for the sake of performance, is not a person. Whatever else anyone may say, nuns are people, not just temporary personas. If Jack Fertig had legally changed his name and lived out his life (or her life, rather) as Sister Boom Boom, 24/7, I'd feel differently. Father Guido Sarducci as categorized in "Fictional priests", Brother Cadfael is categorized in "Fictional monks", The Flying Nun is categorized in "Fictional nuns"; Pope Joan is categorized in "Fictional popes". Why? Because they are fictional characters! And Sister Boom Boom is a fictional character. So let's hear the clear justification why this particular fictional character is different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.25.56 (talk) 02:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Now *that* is a good point. My take on the matter is that Sister Boom Boom is a real person - she went out into the community and talked to people, raised money for charities, even ran for Board of Supervisors. Not Jack, but Sister Boom Boom. See [3]. As such, Sister Boom Boom is not a fictional character, for fictional people can't run for office. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:03, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

this is bullshit. a man cannot be a nun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.175.50.123 (talk) 23:06, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Birthplace

On Jack Fertig's website, this page has some biographical details, including "born 21 Feb. 1955 12:16 pm cst [18.16 gmt] in Chicago, Illinois, USA." Based on that, I will change the place of birth in the article. Jonathunder (talk) 15:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Article name

Shouldn't this article's name be "Sister Boom Boom," not "Sister Boom-Boom?" The article states Sister Boom Boom never used a hyphen in her name, so it seems "Sister Boom-Boom" should be a redirect, while the full article should be at "Sister Boom Boom," not the other way around (like it is). Contributions/129.78.64.100 (talk) 09:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

 Done Jonathunder (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, can someone explain why it isn't called Jack Fertig? — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 21:51, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Because this is the name by which the entertainer was best known. Judy Garland is an article title; Frances Ethel Gumm is a redirect. Jonathunder (talk) 02:12, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Minor Cleanup

I added citation where it was noted to be needed, checked all the citations which are all still active, links good. I think there is more which could be added from verifiable sources, how I found the story was hereEllin Beltz (talk) 23:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

In Memoriam

According to a close friend who was with him when he died, Jack Fertig passed away in San Francisco last night (August 5th, 2012) after a long battle with liver cancer. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and other groups plan memorials for Jack and the news should be public in the next day. Citations will be available shortly. Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:47, 7 August 2012 (UTC)