Talk:Slate Islands, Scotland

Members of the Group

There will soon be an article about Lunga (north of Scarba) which I will add to this group. Although there does not seem to be a clear definition of its membership, the BBC at least BBC Islandblogging seem sure Lunga is included. On the other hand, Siel Island's website [1] states 'the Isle of Seil, Easdale Island, the Isle of Luing and Belnahua are the Slate Islands' but the Heritage Trust [2] is more accommodating, if somewhat vague. W. H Murray's The Hebrides is unhelpful, declining a definition and outrageously claiming that 'Seil and Luing, like Kerrera and Lismore .. are not topographically part of the Hebridean archipelago'. He is more forthcoming in The Companion Guide to the West Highlands of Scotland but only goes so far as to say: 'Seil and Luing, Shuna, Torsa, Belnahua and many others are collectively known as the Slate Islands.' Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 14 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move. The disambiguation form of the islands in Ontario can be discussed separately. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 04:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

---

• Slate Islands → Slate Islands, Scotland
• Slate Islands (disambiguation) → Slate Islands

-- [changed from Slate Islands (Scotland) at 13:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC) per comments] – There's a Slate Islands (Ontario) and neither seems the main topic. They both get around 30 views a day. They both have fair-sized articles. The one has a population (under 1,000 tho) and has a history going back to the 6th century. But the other is a park, so has visitors (not lots), and was made by a meteor. Can't see a clear choice between them. Herostratus (talk) 03:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose
  • If you included hits to the individual slate islands - see template below - you'd get a different result.

• • If we did move the existing article we would not use brackets. See WP:SCOTLANDPLACE
  • We don't need a dab page (created yesterday) for two articles. See WP:D2D. Ben MacDui 08:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:D2D Doesn't say not to have a DAB page. Actually it says quite the opposite, that a two-link DAB is fine (assuming there's no primary topic). And of course I created the DAB yesterday, what else was I supposed to do. --Herostratus (talk) 14:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:D2D says if there are only two topics there is no need for a dab page. As you say, this is explained in more detail by WP:NOPRIMARY. The idea that uninhabited islands with no history are somehow the equivalent of the "islands that roofed the world" is beyond me, but so it goes. No doubt when this is concluded you will be happy to fix all the links. Ben MacDui 14:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Spoken like a true Scotsman. And were the Scottish islands formed as the center of a 32km meteor crater that might have been part of the Ordovician meteor event? So, science. And nobody lives there (can't) but people visit, it's not like it's in the high arctic or something. Herostratus (talk) 16:04, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support the Scottish one has 386 views but the Lake Superior one has 738[[3]]. There is also another in Ontario, one in Australia and one in the United States[4] see ceb:Slate Islands though strangely the Scottish one isn't included. However as noted above the correct title would be Slate Islands, Scotland or Slate Islands, Inner Hebrides. I don't really think you can count pageviews of the individual islands as they aren't called "Slate Islands" just like we wouldn't consider views for Norwich when considering the primary topic for Norfolk. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
  • @Crouch, Swale: The proposal isn't to have the Ontario version be the primary topic, but to have a dab. However there is no need for a dab page, which would likely be deleted. So what's your proposal? Ben MacDui
    • @Ben MacDui: To have the DAB at the base name. Evidence suggests there is no primary topic or it could be the Lake Superior one if there was one so the DAB can list the 2 or more uses per WP:NOPRIMARY. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:35, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but move to Slate Islands, Scotland like Rabbit Islands, Scotland per Crouch, Swale. Support dab move as there are potential additions to be made. DankJae 21:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Scottish Islands, WikiProject Islands, WikiProject Mining, and WikiProject Geology have been notified of this discussion. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 22:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support move per DankJae to Slate Islands, Scotland. Support DAB also. -- Otr500 (talk) 18:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support it is very obvious that this needs to be done

thanks

Daisytheduck (talk) 23:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• Note, I corrected the proposed target to be Slate Islands, Scotland. Herostratus (talk) 14:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

  We also need to move the Ontario slate islands for consistency. Daisytheduck (talk) 22:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Daisytheduck, not necessarily, the amended title for Scotland was to be inline with WP:SCOTLANDPLACE as well as the fact that UK places usually are disambiguated with a comma. Canadian locations may use parenthesis for disambiguation more instead of a comma. Better have each article aligned with similar articles/islands in their countries rather than two articles that just happen to have the same name on other sides of the Atlantic. DankJae 21:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

  Looking at it a bit, is seems like there might be different conventions for populated places and mere geographical feature. For Canada it is advised to use the comma for cities and towns, but the rule gives no advice for unpopulated places, and by a quick scan it looks like parens are used for Canadian geographical features. For Scotland, we have the uninhabited Sheep Island, Argyll, but also the unihabited barely inhabited Grimsay (South East Benbecula); I did not drill deeper. I wouldn't overly worry about it as I'm sure we're going to have inconsistencies as in this example, maybe forever, and I doubt the reader much cares. I'd leave the Canadian islands alone for now. Herostratus (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Also it looks like, for consistency, the second part should possibly not be "Scotland" but rather than name of the province or county (or whatever) that they are in, or else maybe "Inner Hebrides" or maybe "New Hebrides". (For my part I would prefer "Scotland" as everyone knows where that is, but the New Hebrides not so much.) I'll leave it to the closer to decide, any advice anyone wants to give her would be welcome I am sure. One person has suggested "Inner Hebrides". (But then we do have Rabbit Islands, Scotland not Rabbit Islands, Sutherland, so who knows.) Herostratus (talk) 16:09, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

@Herostratus, just mentioned that in the UK, places are usually comma disambiguated, but Canada may have different preferences so doesn't need to automatically move too because of two island groups sharing the same name.

The Scottish ones seem to be generally all in the council area of Argyll and Bute so Slate Islands, Argyll and Bute if we're not using "Scotland". However, Scotland can be used if they're known outside the region, with it being a group of islands it may be more known (over individual islands). Using "Inner Hebrides" nor "Sutherland" technically aren't recommended as they're not council areas, unless it's for settlements within them.

New Hebrides is Vanuatu? I assume you mean Hebrides which like its inner islands aren't recommended to use either. Only options are "Scotland" or "Argyll and Bute" technically. The islands seem more known outside the region so prefer "Scotland" and it'll be more helpful to readers, especially when distinguishing from the Canadian islands and any other Slate Islands, as Argyll and Bute is probably not as well known either. DankJae 17:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.