Talk:Socialist Alternative (Australia)

Mick Armstrong

Why does Mick Armstrong link to the History section of this article? Jack Upland (talk) 01:06, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Mick is one of the founders and leaders of Socialist Alternative. He still writes for the Red Flag today. -AndreyKva (talk) 01:15, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Is that supported with WP:RS? Otherwise just seems like a bit of promotion for Mick's writing. TarnishedPath^talk 01:52, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. There's not much written online about their founders or leaders, so I don't have any sources for him founding or leading the organization, but he still frequently writes for Socialist Alternative's paper: https://redflag.org.au/author/mick-armstrong
I didn't set up the disambiguation, but I'm pretty sure his affiliation with Red Flag is the reason. I wouldn't argue that it's necessarily a good reason. -AndreyKva (talk) 03:01, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

@Jack Upland:, there is way too WP:OR in this article and other claims which aren't backed up by citations. I tagged the article other a month ago that it had a problem with citations, so if you see problems then I say you should go ahead and do something about it. TarnishedPath^talk 06:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

My point is that Mick isn't mentioned here, so why the link?--Jack Upland (talk) 00:10, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Do you mean the link to "From Little Things Big Things Grow". I've removed it. It's a publication by Mick and so belongs on an article on him, if he has one. Otherwise can you be more specific? TarnishedPath^talk 07:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

"Mick Armstrong" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Mick Armstrong has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 October 6 § Mick Armstrong until a consensus is reached. TarnishedPath^talk 06:28, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Campaigns

I believe some of the wording of this section of the article is misleading. I may be wrong, so I wanted to bring it to the discussion page because I'm a new Wikipedia editor and wanted to have a forum surrounding this possible issue. The section I think is an issue is,--

"SA maintains that Israel does not represent Jews but only claims to do so, and argues that their group takes "a firm stand against all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism", although some chapters have explicitly stated they are "not an anti-racist movement"."

Upon reviewing the source cited for the latter quote (this article), I believe that this quote is not an appropriate source for this Wikipedia page. While I acknowledge this section is discussing the links of Socialist Alternative to the Students for Palestine movement, they are not the same movement, therefore I believe that the insertion of the quote, "not an anti-racist movement" leads readers to believe that Socialist Alternative has conflicting views on their position on racism.

The latter quote was pulled from an article covering the Students for Palestine movement's recent protests and the quote is from one of the leaders of Students for Palestine stating they are not an explicitly anti-racist movement. This person goes on to say they, "[welcome] anyone who opposes the genocide in Gaza." This statement is meaning to describe the nature of the aims of Students for Palestine and is not necessarily indicative of Socialist Alternative's views, as a separate entity, of which this Wikipedia page leads readers to believe. Students for Palestine is not a 'chapter' of SA, thus the wording, I believe, is misleading.

The former quote in the section I highlighted -- "a firm stand against all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism" -- cites their source as an article, and pulled a quote from a member of SA, which I believe is an appropriate source. It is mainly the latter quote I believe to be problematic and misleading in nature. DIYwriting (talk) 11:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with your analysis. Much of that section is not appropriately referenced. There were previously a bunch of dead links throughout the article to either pages on Socialist Alternative's website or articles in their publication Red Flag. It wasn't really appropriate to try and find where the pages or articles had moved to as the usage of pretty much all failed the WP:ABOUTSELF exception which would allow use of non-independent sources in such a manner so I just removed them. If you want to go through and remove material that is unsourced or fails verification you have my blessing. TarnishedPath^talk 11:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply! Yeah much of the 'Campaigns' section needs some work -- I'll sift through some of it at a later date to see what needs more referencing. Would it be appropriate to remove the entire last part of the sentence I was talking about in my og post altogether? DIYwriting (talk) 12:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd edit to accurately reflect the source. TarnishedPath^talk 00:07, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The person being quoted (Magila) is the secretary of the local Socialist Alternative branch (https://www.uwastudentguild.com/clubs/socialist-alternative), so most certainly an appropriate quote to include. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 14:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Although I appreciate that the distinction is not properly drawn that the "some chapters" being referred to is SfP and not SAlt, and as the person who updated that section, that is my error. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 14:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)