Talk:Solidarity (Polish trade union)

Old talk

Hmm. This needs disambiguastion, don't you think? Przepla 22:10, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Agree but should Solidarity be about the Polish union federation with the disambig page beeing Solidarity (disambiguation). Or should Solidarity be the disambig page? (I'd go for option one myself). Saul Taylor 10:01, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Done. I initially went for option two, but then remembered that this page contains all history, so I created separate disambig. page. Przepla 20:58, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why isn't there a page on the concept of solidarity? Shouldn't this be the main sense of the word? NTK 03:00, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Because nobody created it yet? Solidarity union is basically here as in Wikipedia articles references to Solidarity are almost always references to this trade union. Przepla 23:18, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a US-based initiative and most americans and most netizens (young paranoid gun-loving male people) are very hostile to positive rights of humans in general, so the philosophical and moral issue of solidarity does not mean anything for them and they do not want to see that in their encyclopaedia. 195.70.48.242 11:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Have you seen the disambig at the top of the article? [[Solidarity (disambiguation)].--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 14:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Name

What does "Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy Solidarność" mean precisely? A-giau 11:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The Independent and Self-Governing Trade Union ‘Solidarność’--Emax 20:03, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism

I deleted a section on Anti-Semitism, inserted by some anon user. While I agree that Anti-Semitism is an important issue in many cases, the case of Solidarity is not one of them. Presenting the views of two former members who are morons and anti-Semites as if they were spokespeople for the entire, once 4-million strong organization, is a fishy thing. Halibutt 09:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I want to try to find a compromise about this issue. I think, dear friend, that deleting the whole section is not the best thing to do, because it was clearly said at the beginning of the article that Solidarnosc is not an antisemitic organization but some of its members, including Lech Walesa, made antisemitic statements ( Walesa also apologized for it). But I agree with you that calling the section "Anti-semitism" can give a wrong idea of what is Solidarnosc, that's why I insered again the text but calling the section "Polemics about antisemitic claims". I think this can be a good compromise, no? Anyway, it's always better to add informations then to delete them. For example, to balance the section you could say that many Jewish intellectuals were members of Solidarnosc. Best regards!

(Virgilio 12:10, 16 September 2005 (UTC))

Virgilio, I think you missed the point here. The relations with any ethnic group are neither the primary aims of any trade union nor were they ever important to its functioning. As a matter of fact the trade union Solidarność is leftist, but is still a trade union and not a party. Therefore it unites people of all backgrounds, from rightists to leftists, from communists to nationalists. Yet the trade union does not have any official policy towards any ethnic minority in Poland. If you want to add info on specific people, then please do so on their respective pages. However, your remarks on alleged anti-Semitism of some of the former members of Solidarity have nothing to do with Solidarity itself. Also, take note that what you wrote in the article can be said of any other organisation in the world. "Although the United Nations is not an anti-Semitist organisation, one of the former spokespeople of one of the representatives of that organisation is known to publicise....". This is not an information and is completely irrelevant to the main topic of the article. Move it to Henryk Jankowski, Zygmunt Wrzodak or wherever you please. Halibutt 12:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry dear Halibutt, but I don't agree with you. And in my opinion the comparison you made with United Nations is not a good one, beacuse it never happened for example that Kofi Annan made an antisemitic statement but, on the contrary, it is happened that Lech Walesa, the "flag" of Solidarnosc, said an antisemitic bullshit and then he also apologized for it. That's why I think the presence of a section about Antisemitism has a certain importance and telling you honestly reading texts written by Solidarnosc members unfortuntanetely it happens to me to find things like "Jewish bankers control the world" ( maybe not written so explicitely but still..). But I really don't want to start an "edit war", so I'm not going on it anymore leaving the task to who is interested in this section, just I think it's discouraging that sometimes the "myth" is stronger than the truth. My feeling is that maybe when one touches the "flags" it's always a problem. What a pity.

Best regards!

(Virgilio 13:04, 16 September 2005 (UTC))

If you really need to address the anti-Semitism of Wałęsa, you should do it in the article on him and not here. Especially that the only non-PC remarks by him I know come from the times of his presidency and not from the times when he was the head of the trade union.

And the comparison with the UN is completely valid as I bet you'd find some anti-Semite in its ranks, be it current or former. Yet we do not address the anti-Semitism of its members on the page on United Nations. If you don't like the comparison, then exchange the name of that organisation with any other you like, be it American Congress, CDU, Forza Italia, McDonald's or Coca Cola. Halibutt 14:37, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

About Walesa I think it's a good idea to write about his non-PC statement in the article about him and I think I'll do. Your comparison with the UN was wrong not because of the fact that there you can't find antisemites ( I bet there were and there are plenty of them ), but because the man who represent UN never said antisemitic statement and, on the contrary, the man who represented Solidarnosc did. This is the difference! I make you an example. In Italy the biggest trade union is CGIL and between the members of CGIL, even if it is a leftist sindacate, for sure there will be some racist person because, as you rightly said before, a trade union unites people of all backgrounds, but the leader of CGIL, Guglielmo Epifani, never said a racist statement in his life and I never heard a prominent member of CGIL saying a racist word. I think that if a famous member of CGIL would say a racist statement he would be expelled from the union. In the case of Solidarnosc this happened quite often between notorious members like Jankowski. This is what I meant and this is the reason why I thought it was important to write this in the article. But I think that for someone Solidarnosc is "sacred" and they don't want to see the word "antisemitism" in the article. I understand but I don't agree, sorry. Best regards! (Virgilio 20:18, 16 September 2005 (UTC))

Especially that the only non-PC remarks by him I know come from the times of his presidency and not from the times when he was the head of the trade union.

Not exactly my friend. Walesa's statement about the fact he is "100% pole with no Jewish blood" was made a bit before he became president, to be more precise it was during the electoral campaign for 1990 elections. Also others of his non-PC remarks were claimed before his presidency. For more details see [1]. Just to make a punctualization ;) Best Regards! (Virgilio 21:16, 16 September 2005 (UTC))

I think we need to differentiate between personal opinion statements of some people and the organisation policy. Did Walesa and some other Solidarity members made antisemitic remarks? Yes. Did they influence the Solidarity policy so it became an antisemitic organisation? No. Thus, this is not relevant to this article, by but all means, feel free to mention it in their biographical articles. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 01:27, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I think you're right. Ok, for me the discussion can be closed here. Wish you all a nice weekend;) Best regards (Virgilio 12:58, 17 September 2005 (UTC))

Sorry to re-open the debate, but there remains a few issues. Whether there is a need to differentiate between personal opinion and the public statements? Yes. How many left-wing/trade union members make right-wing/antisemitic remarks? Not many. Could such remarks influenced Solidarity members, so that members felt safe using antisemitic opinions? Possible. Could such comments have been aimed at winning the vote of right-wing members? Possible. Is the issue of antisemitic remarks relevant within an article on left-wing/trade unions issues? Totally! 92.16.159.244 (talk) 17:27, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"How many left-wing/trade union members make right-wing/anti-Semitic remarks? Not many". That statement is ridiculous in the extreme and not simply because it seems to be pretending that "right wing" and "anti-Semitic" are somehow synonymous terms. The notion that is somehow implausible anti-Semitic statements could be uttered by "left-wing/trade union members" is silly. Anti-Semitism is in no way uncommon on the left and to pretend otherwise is to be willfully ignorant. I would hope that anyone editing this entry is not doing so while operating under the ludicrous belief that those on the left are somehow, by definition, practically incapable of being anti-Semitic. Moreover, the author of the sentence I quoted makes the patently false assumption, as evidenced by the use of "left-wing/trade union members", that unions are politically homogenous monoliths. The "left-wing/trade union members" designation is particularly wrong when employed in a discussion of Solidarity's members.74.215.219.209 (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Vatican's fifth coloumn

It is now fully well known that polish Solidarity was controlled by JPII and the Vatican and was financed by the CIA with money flowing through the Banco Ambrosiana bank of the Vatican. The head of that bank was infamously assassinated in a made-up suicide plot on a bridge because he was concerned that the Vatican's espionage and clandestine diversion actitity against a souvereign state threatens the basic morals and continued existence of the roman catholic church and so he was about to disclose the info. But he did not have the time to do so, as he was assassinated.

This should be clearly addressed in the article, since it shows that Solidarity was not a honest popular movement, but something pre-organized, a puppet hand controlled from the west. 195.70.48.242 11:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

please provide your sources.--JK the unwise 11:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Ditto.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 14:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The money to run Solidarity came from the CIA via the Vatican (its Banco Ambrosiano affiliate). When the money laundering scandal hit the news, they tried to cover up the purpose of money siphoning activity as a mafia affair. And the banker Roberto Calvi who knew everything was assasinated in London. BBC writes everything here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4737052.stm

The polish movement was only as genuine as the 1956 hungarian events, both were orchestrated and controlled in timing and development by the CIA, who exploited the local people's genuine discontent with the communist regime to serve the imperialist bloc's selfish interests. 195.70.32.136 08:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

And could you back up this statement with a single academic reference?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Piotrus, you're asking for the impossible! Generally, those most rotten of the institutions, the Church and the CIA, work in secrecy with incredible success. Thanks to people who don't dare to ask dangerous questions.177.40.145.241 (talk) 01:24, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

It is now 2014 and no one here appears daring enough to ask the question of whether Solidarity was an honest popular movement/trade union - or something puppet-controlled from the west? 92.16.159.244 (talk) 17:47, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

There seem to be some more sources by now but not sure if they are convincing enough. Some books / articles are mentioned here:

https://networks.h-net.org/node/9669/reviews/4975647/mazurkiewicz-jones-covert-action-reagan-cia-and-cold-war-struggle

https://bennorton.com/jacobin-cia-union-solidarity-poland/ Nakonana (talk) 19:00, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Clerical reaction braked Poland to a food crisis standstill

It should be noted that the reason for food crisis in Poland had nothing to do with communism or socialism. To the contrary, Poland was the only place in the soviet block, where kolhoz-es and sovkhoz-es (people-owned and state-owned agricultural production associations) were NOT forcibly created.

In fact, most land in Poland was continously owned by individual small peasants, who only had a few acres per capita. Because of this they did not have the capital to buy and use tractors and other machinery or the use of advanced fertilizers, etc. They plowed with horses and oxes, like in the third world countries. Because the polish state had little agricultural land, advanced production methods could not be introduced from upside down.

All these peasants were very catholic and the church indoctrinated them to be very hostile to any kind of assocication, even voluntary and any progress in general. The church discouraged them and their children from education since they may be infested with atheist and worldly thoughts. So they remained dumb and didn't even take agricultural-specific secondary school or college. Due to their low standards of methods and lack of specialist knowledge and general void of tools, they were unable to produce sufficient volumes of crop and meat.

So the very problem what made the catholic church's facet movement "Solidarity" popular, the protest against continued food crisis and the food stamp necessity, was in fact created by the very same catholicism, which kept peasants dumbs and hostile to progress.

In many other estern bloc countries, including Hungary, where kolhoz movement (locally called "mgtsz") was forced on the people, agricultural production was good through the 1970's and 1980's and a lot of export was done and yet, there wasn't any food shortage in Hungary. We even had banana in the shops thanks to Kadar's politics. In Poland, tomato soup was made by pouring boiling water into red-coloured dishes... according to the popular and very true joke.

The polish agricultural situation was similar to what we see with the EU in France today, that catholic small peasants become the obstacle to economic progress and oft cause of unrest, but France has a much better situation because it is richer and because they have placed big controls on the catholic worldly power since 1905.

As much as the polish and hungarian people are close historical friends, I must say that the 1980's polish crisis was caused by the polish people (esp. the peasants) themselves and the retrograd church and should not be blamed mainly on communist repression. I am really afraid for Poland's future, because they are now even more firmly in the fist of the Vatican and the popes use them for their own aims, especially russophobia and anti-orthodoxia, which can only end bad for the polish people due to the size comparison of the two countries.

Regards: Tamas Feher from Hungary <etomcat@freemail.hu> 195.70.48.242 11:37, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Please provide sources. I have not seen logic like this outside mariginal communist/right-wing pamphlets (that's a nice marriage - right-wing communist :>). Fact is, because Poland avoided collectivization, it suffered food shortages on a much smaller scale then other Soviet bloc countries (Holodomor, anyone?). Since you are from Hungary, you may find articles on shortage economy by your János Kornai interesting.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 14:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Shortage economy, possibly. If you wanted to buy a color TV or a semi-automatic washing machine or a good sports bike you had to "hunt" around shops in communist Hungary because there was no continuous availability. Cars were utmost hard to get, because Hungary did not make any, all came from COMECON import. But food, never seen it lacking. I got chocolate every day when I was a kid (and that did hurt my teeth). We had "winter salami" and bread, butter, beer that could be drunk and meat and vegetables, maybe not as many different versions as sold today, but food shortage was unknown. In fact, when communism fell suddenly we had an almost empty fridge during the early 1990: the market economy arrived but money wasn't available due to collapse of industry and unemployment. Most hungarian people are still vocal about their fond memories of "3.60 forint priced bread-loafs" sold during the communist era.

In contrast, Poland had a genuine food shortage. This was due to peasant's resistance against collectivization, even though they did not have the private resources to modernize as invidiual agricultural producers. So strong was the polish small peasant class that their own agricultural political party continued to legally exist besides the big "polish workers' socialist party" all the time during the communist regime. This is unprecedented, because in all other soviet-block countries, only the one and undivided "worker's party" was allowed to exist (the one-party-state totalitarian system).

The ukrainian holodomor (massive famine) happened in the 1930's when Poland was a capitalist state. Communism arrived to eastern Europe in 1945, and the period we were talking about is the 1970s and 1980s, so the comparison has no meaning. 195.70.32.136 10:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

First of all, the food shortage was a direct result of the economical policies of the commies in the 1970's, and not the collectivisation in the 1950's (which, by the way, failed in most cases but the Recoverred Territories). The reason why Krakus ham, Polish sausages and Polish wheat was available everywhere apart from Poland herself was that, after taking zillions of dollars in credits, the Edward Gierek had to start exporting everything it could just to pay off the interest. Same applied to coal: Poland was both one of the major agricultural producers and exporters of coal, yet these goods were hardly available at home. It is worth noting, that the agricultural production of private held farms was much supperior to that of much larger PGR (Polish version of Sovkhoz), especially in the 1980's (with few notable exceptions).

As to the peasant party - the ZSL was but a facade party, a left-over after the once-mighty Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe. After the commies had destroyed the latter party (using what is called a salami tactics, BTW - a Hungarian trace!), the ZSL was left only as a facade. In fact it had absolutely no independence and was fully dependant on the Party. BTW, in 1960's and 1970's, the ZSL was a party of intelligentsia rather than peasants as it was seen as a safe choice for those who had to be members of the party and did not want to join the PUWP (such was the case of my grandpa, a University professor). Halibutt 15:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Food shortages in Poland never have been big, and ended the moment capitalism was reestablished. In fact there is overproduction of food, because of too many farmers. If there were full collectivization in Poland (as in Ukraine - which has much better soils th Poland, and have starved under Soviet regime), things would have been worse. By the way if so many home-produced food appeared on market in 1990, where it was before? Population of farmers can't increase so fast so much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.190.48.185 (talk) 09:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Name - move?

What do you think of moving this to Solidarność and moving Solidarity (sociology) here?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 15:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Sadly, we have the usual problem: English language publications almost universally use Solidarnosc and never include the diacritics. Check search results on Google Book Search ([2]). Of course to a Polish-speaking person this form looks atrocious, but it is admittedly easier on English-only speakers. Making both groups happy will be impossible here.

I say we move Solidarity (disambiguation) here and leave this as Solidarity (Polish trade union) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.23.135.169 (talk) 16:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

To avoid these problems, I suggest we go with Solidarity movement, or better yet Solidarity movement in Poland to avoid any confusion. This could be an umbrella article which could discuss all the organisations listed in pl:Solidarność. Google Book Search shows plenty of hits for the first option ([3])

More specifically, the search for "solidarity movement" and Poland gives 258 books [4] (Balcer 02:38, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

1. Nor would you use the diacritics if they weren't available in your typeface, or if your publisher charged extra for setting them. But that isn't a problem on WP.
2. I may be stupid, but I fail to understand in what way omitting the diacritics is "easier on English-only speakers". It's not as if they would have to type them in themselves. —Blotwell 09:28, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the first post. The actual name of the party isn't even "Solidarity", but "Solidarność". I came here looking for the Social_solidarity article and found instead something I had never heard about in my life, and IMHO, something most people who have nothing to do with Poland are likely not to know or care about. I believe this article should be located in Solidarność, or Solidarnosc, or even both! and Social_solidarity moved here. 114.180.121.194 (talk) 14:03, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree also. I was out for Solidarity (sociology), but expected Solidarity (literal meaning). This article could move to Solidarność or Solidarity (political movement, Poland). The current topic is too specialized to be of interest for most readers — not uninteresting, but of too little consequence to the "random solidarity seeker". ... said: Rursus (^mbork³) 07:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

BTW, in Sweden the union was often called just Solidarność /solidarnostsh/, despite us having neither ś nor ć in Swedish. ... said: Rursus (^mbork³) 07:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Union

I added the Union infobox. It is has been created as part of WikiProject Organized Labour. This is the first article it has been added to, but as Solidarity is used for the example at {{Infobox Union}} it seemed appropriate. Please feel free to comment on both the content fields and style of the infobox on the template disscusion page. There is a (fairly arbitrary) date of March 1st as an aim for a more general usage of this infobox, and any input would be appreciated. Cheers. --Bookandcoffee 23:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

PR and FAC

Those are my goals for this article. To be ready for PR, three things are necessary:

• expantion (in progress - I am translating the article from pl wiki)
• copyedit (English language - not my speciality)
• references (I'll take care of that after expantion)

Comments and help appreciated.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 20:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Seems a decent idea. As soon as I get back from my family's place I'll try to apply as much of my reference paranoia as possible here :) //Halibutt 09:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I just realized that the article is more of History of Solidarity then Solidarity: we need to expand on struture, influence and other non-history issue.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I think of splitting the history part into the above article, this seems to have enough material to be set on the GA/PR/FAC track. However we have nothing on organization, and a stub section on worldwide importance, so this article needs major content expantion before it can be put through that.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 23:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Propsed new categories

• Category:Solidarity, to encompass organizations and events related to Solidarity (Gdańsk Agreement, martial law in Poland, AWS, etc.)
• Category:Solidarity activists, a subcat of Category:Activists and Category:Solidarity

Comments?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

<ref>

I converted the introduction to the <ref> format. I'll come back and work on the rest of the article in a few days if no one is too opposed to the change.--Bookandcoffee 18:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

GA move

As I have splitted most of the content to History of Solidarity, I don't think this article can be viewed as GA any longer, I am removing the GA notice and listing History... for GA.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Today

We need more information about what Solidarność is up to at the moment. --LakeHMM 23:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the main text: "Since 1989 Solidarity has become a more traditional trade union, and had relatively little impact on the political scene of Poland in the early 1990s. A political arm founded in 1996 as Solidarity Electoral Action (AWS) won the parliamentary election in 1997, but lost the following 2001 election. Currently, as a political party Solidarity has little influence on modern Polish politics."

In the end, despite claims of it being some kind of neo-trade union, Solidarity has had little impact in the work-place - and has even less influence within the nation. 92.16.159.244 (talk) 15:51, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

From the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

The first two paragraphs are repeated essentially verbatim in the next two sections. At least one set should be deleted or rewritten.

Repeating paragraph has been deleted from the introduction section. Content was identical with influence abroad. Do not reintroduce unless expanding content

198.96.180.245 19:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon. WP:LEAD is supposed to be a summary of the article. This article is still a draft, thus I agree the paras need expansion and being rewritten - but I think it's better to have a more comprehensive lead than not.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  22:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Piotrus, we cannot have identical paragraphs in the same article, we have to make a choice of which section one we want to keep it in. Agree with me, it would be unreasonable to keep this paragraph as a stub, we can always refer to the paragraph whenever the summary or expansion actually starts being written. 216.58.96.134 00:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon (please consider registering - it's easy and gives you access to additional editing tools) - perhaps you'd consider expanding the article? Please note we have a high quality subarticle at History of Solidarity.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  00:43, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Piotrus, thank you for your offer to contribute to the article. I will consider doing so in the future. At the moment I believe that we will do a service to users who would like to print the article by keeping redundant material off of it. I believe such users exist notwithstanding the incompleteness of the article. I do agree with you that History of Solidarity is an excellent article. 209.195.119.84 07:34, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Delete Page

All of the information contained in this page can be found within the more comprehensive History of Solidarity page. I propose deleting this page and redirecting History of Solidarity to Solidarity --SianMycock 19:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Gunter Grass

how about mention of Solidarnosc, the shipyard etc in the Gunter Grass novel The Rat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.14.2 (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

kaminski

i wonder who put into furter reading a book of kaminski about prisoners, what have nothing to do with solidarity. i am going to remove it --37uk (talk) 21:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

solicitudo

a book of pope has nothing about solidarity either.--37uk (talk) 21:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC) it should be rather included in Social solidarity --37uk (talk) 21:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Name of union & article

I have a question about the exact correct translation of the full name of Solidarity/Solidarność. Near the top of this talk page an editor asked: What does "Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy Solidarność" mean precisely? The reply was: The Independent and Self-Governing Trade Union ‘Solidarność’.

What I would like to know is whether the English word "Trade" is a literal, exact translation of the Polish word. In other words, in Poland, are workers' unions referred to as "trade unions" or as "labor unions"? (Or is that distinction even made?) Cgingold (talk) 15:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Replied here.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Our discussion is continuing there, and has shifted to the renaming of related categories. Cgingold (talk) 14:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

More at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_December_9#Category:Solidarity.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The "ć" is pronounced t̠͡ɕ, not tɕ in the name of the trade union (and there is a difference between them). See the article about polish phonology if you don't believe. And besides I'm a Pole, so I know it well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.184.202.152 (talk) 09:33, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Translation?

What does Jesień Ludów mean literally? I know Jesień is autumn (fall), but can't figure out the rest of the phrase, given my very slight acquaintance with Polish.

And, is it somehow analagous to the German die Wende, referring to the great change after 1989?

Sca (talk) 22:52, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 12:15, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

---

Solidarity (Polish trade union) → Solidarność – This is the union's real and universally recognized name. Charles Essie (talk) 22:17, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

• Comment I'd like to see some data proving that it's "universally recognized" in English. Google Ngram shows the advantage of "Polish Solidarity" (although this can refer to just solidarity within the Polish society and not the union) over Solidarność. Both Encyclopædia Britannica[5] and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty[6] use "Solidarity". --Երևանցի ^talk 03:48, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

• Maybe, "universally recognized" was the wrong term to use, but it is the name you see on all the t-shirts and banners and it's the group's real name. Charles Essie (talk) 15:33, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose per Yerevantsi. "Move because this is the real name" is an invalid rationale. The sole question is what this union is known as and referred to as in English, and per Yerevantsi there needs to be some presented evidence that "Solidarność" is preferred in English. The "it's the group's real name" claim used again in reply to Yerevantsi's request shows a fundamental misunderstanding of article naming policies. (I assume that what Charles Essie means is "name in Polish", but no one is contesting that fact.) SnowFire (talk) 23:56, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
• Strong oppose show that this is universally recognized in English. It is universally known as "Solidarity" in English. WP:OFFICIALNAME -- do not use official names just because, use the common one instead. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 03:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is the English Wikipedia. We do not title Rome as Roma because Romance languages use that spelling and so on. It is normally named Solidarity in English.--Charles (talk) 09:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Instantly recognisable in English-speaking countries as "Solidarity", which was the name always used in the media when it was big news at the end of the communist era. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:23, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Solidarity is a widely used name in the English-language publications. - Darwinek (talk) 14:51, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not anti-communist

I am removing Category:Solidarity (Polish union movement) from Category:Polish anti-communists as Solidarity was not anti-communist. Some of its members were, but it was not the Union's official policy, particularly not in the beginning. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:40, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Solidarity is anti-communist

You appear to have little understanding of the true reason/s Solidarity was created. For not only is it a western-backed 'trade union', but it is also anti-communist. Consider how "Lech Wałęsa and others formed a broad anti-Soviet social movement ranging from people associated with the Catholic Church". Reading the whole text, is it not clear that the Category:'Polish anti-communists' is the correct one? 92.16.159.244 (talk) 15:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

We need to add information supported by reliable that it was funded by foreign powers-including CIA.

We need to add information supported by reliable that it was funded by foreign powers-including CIA.For example Time openly wrote that part of the funds of the Solidarity movement came from CIA accounts. Money for the banned union came from CIA funds, the National Endowment for Democracy, secret accounts in the Vatican and Western trade unions.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:08, 28 September 2014 (UTC) Other sources:[7], [8]. I also remember a BBC document about this organization where former CIA administrator mentioned that Solidarity costed USA as much as funds diverted to Afghanistan.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:17, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 20 May 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 11:01, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

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Solidarity (Polish trade union) → Solidarity (Poland) – Rename per WP:PRECISION. The current title is more specific than nessacary. Charles Essie (talk) 13:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose the article is about a trade union. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:29, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose there is only one Poland. Solidarity is not it. Solidarity is/was a trade union. GregKaye 21:44, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

• I'm not sure I follow. What are you saying exactly? Charles Essie (talk) 02:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose the base disambiguator is "trade union" and "Polish" is a modification on that. We seem to be missing the political party Solidarity from Poland, that came out of the trade union, so "Solidarity (Poland)" should point to the disambiguation page when such is written. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:23, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose, but why not just Solidarity (trade union)? Are there more in other countries? Randy Kryn 12:45, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • There are trade unions in other countries with this name, which even have content on Wikipedia, per the disambiguation page (such as one in South Africa, and another in Britain). -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

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CIA and Solidarity

Disruptive editing – FYI, a hopping IP has been repeatedly inserting (WP:Fringe) claims using a non-WP:RS. [9]. Act on it, if you are an admin. Zezen (talk) 06:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

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Covert support for Solidarity

There seems to be an editor, namely Openlydialectic, who rejects the fact that the CIA supported Solidarity, contrary to factual history. This editor keeps deleting a section concerning this information from the article. His reasons cited are that the source provided are "soviet-style Russian propaganda." This is wholly obnoxious, as one of the main sources from the section is from the CIA website itself! Openlydialectic has refused to give any intelligible reason for his reverts, so I am keeping the section. If anyone sees further reverts by this editor, please report him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C102:EEB3:3D7E:73B0:7E6A:350E (talk) 22:44, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Broken reference html code

the current page is missing a reference, so the whole article is messed up.

This is all visible: Cite error: A (see the help page). (680,000 in 2010)[1] |full_name = Independent Self-governing Trade Union "Solidarity" |native_name = Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy "Solidarność" |image = Solidarity (Polish trade union) (logo).png |caption = |founded = 17 September 1980; 38 years ago[2] |country = Poland |affiliation = ITUC, ETUC, TUAC |office = Gdańsk, Poland |website = Solidarnosc.org.pl (in English) |footnotes = |current = |head = |dissolved_date = |dissolved_state = Merged into |merged_into = |people = Anna Walentynowicz, Lech Wałęsa }}

at the top of the article, and it shouldn't be — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.242.200.33

resolved as of 4:57 PM PST

(talk) 22:38, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Carter Administration

The CIA covert support section begins, "Unlike the Carter Administration, the Reagan policies supported the Solidarity movement in Poland...". This appears to imply that the Carter Administration did not support the Solidarity movement. I see no evidence in this article or its sources for such an implication. Can this be supported or should it be removed? -- Pemilligan (talk) 20:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

The reference to Carter should be removed then, unless an RS supports it. Zezen (talk) 20:59, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Done. -- Pemilligan (talk) 16:34, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Preview image for Solidarity is wrong

When highlighting over the word Solidarity when in refence to the Solidarity (Polish trade union) the logo of the Warsaw Pact. So can anyone fix this?

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Warsaw Pact Logo.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:55, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

CIA funds were channeled to Solidarity under an operation QRHELPFUL. Article makes no mention.

I'm currently writing a paper on this for a history course, and was startled to find that there's nothing here about it. I've read the book & the author gave a talk at my college - notably, it seems all the CIA provided was a shitload of money, technical support for radio/TV broadcasts, and printing equipment and duplicator machines. QRHELPFUL was run out of the Paris CIA office & materials were transported into Poland through "Ratlines" so that the Polish government wasn't ever able to catch the smoking gun of a CIA officer meeting with a Solidarity member.

Sources: Article: https://www.csis.org/analysis/going-offensive-us-strategy-combat-russian-information-warfare Book: A Covert Action - Reagan, The CIA, And The Cold War Struggle In Poland by Seth G. Jones - https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393247008 tweet from the us embassy in Poland about it. https://twitter.com/PolishEmbassyUS/status/1130880287154561024?s=20&t=gqGPgesJiydJhoIHVxr_Ag

I should be writing my essay, so I'm not going to add to the page (especially as I have no experience in that.) Someone should add it, though. Syrtis-m (talk) 02:41, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Quotes

What's with the quotes around the „name”? Can they be removed? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:27, 12 February 2023 (UTC)