Talk:South Eastern Trains

More Main Line Talk

There should surely be a little more than one sentence to show the complete list of services operated by this TOC! Even if it is only taken from here it would make more sense of the operations by SET. Some of the individual lines are articled - eg Chatham Main Line; Kent Coast Line (although those two are virtually one and the same: the latter trains don't start at Faversham as the article suggests); Medway Valley Line; the three routes to Dartford, and several more of the suburban lines. They should all be capable of being mentioned here.

I also find it odd that the 'real' main line operating out of Charing Cross by SET - the line to Ramsgate via Tonbridge & Ashford - appears to have no article at all! Perhaps that is because the lines are NOT delineated here in the way I suggest above? Peter Shearan 19:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Having now rewritten the article to bring it up-to-date and to include the info I talk about above, I wonder if the section on the IKF should not have its own article? There also ought to be some way of describing the direct (SER) main line so that it can have its own article! If nothing else it was where Charles Dickens was involved in the rail accident at Staplehurst!! Peter Shearan 10:38, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Passenger Traffic

The article states "82% of passenger traffic to London." - Is this fragment saying that 82% of their passenger traffic is to London, or that they handle 82% of all traffic to London? (The first seems far more likely, but I'm not going to change it without a reference.)

It means 82% of their passengers start or end their journey in London. MRSC 11:37, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

According to the South Eastern Trains website they run 1700 trains a day, 1400 of which run to and from London. This equates to 82% --Jamesedmo 10:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

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The "rolling stock" section need editing / rephrasing. Since the phasing out of slam doors / arrival of Electrostars its primarily Electrostars (375s and 376s) and a few Networkers (465 and 466). As far as i know / have seen there aren't any 508s about. Any edit should also mention previously operated rolling stock as well as a nod to the Integrated Kent Franchise and its new Bullet Commuter Trains (whatever they are going to be called). 84.68.63.54 21:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC) (Pickle_UK not logged in!)

Rolling Stock

The "rolling stock" section need editing / rephrasing. Since the phasing out of slam doors / arrival of Electrostars its primarily Electrostars (375s and 376s) and a few Networkers (465 and 466). As far as i know / have seen there aren't any 508s about. Any edit should also mention previously operated rolling stock as well as a nod to the Integrated Kent Franchise and its new Bullet Commuter Trains (whatever they are going to be called). 84.68.63.54 21:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC) (Pickle_UK not logged in!)

Prehaps we need the style of the southern page (Southern (train operating company)) see below for a draft --Pickle 17:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Sources for tables details are cobbled together from across wikipedia. the details of the routes operated on the 508 page were inaccurate and said "mostly" so that wasn't much help. more data from http://www.setrains.co.uk/SETrains/CompanyInfo/SouthEasternFacts/ --Pickle 19:40, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The rest of what was here (drafts of "Current fleet" and "Past fleet") has been moved into the article, and I've moved 508s from current to past as i can find no details of them being currently operated by SET Pickle 14:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Train routes

This section is a) incorrect and b) woefully inadequate

       Main lines
       South Eastern Trains run four main lines, two to the Kent coast:
       
       through Tonbridge to:- 
       Ashford and Dover Priory 
       Tunbridge Wells and Hastings 
       through Maidstone East to Ashford and Canterbury 
       through Chatham and the north Kent coast 
       There is also the Medway Valley Line, linking with the North Downs Line to Reading.     

Firstly it needs to state service originating form London termini ie Victoria, Charing X, Blackfrias, Cannon Street and London Bridge.

Secondly while i appreciate SET makes the distinction between metro and "normal" service, we on the wikipedia rail service also have added the rural line category, which rightly or wrongly includes (currently) the Medway Valley Line

On the main line front;

• part needs to redone to simply the London - Ashford- Dover Line and Hastings Line
• the service via Maidstone east to Ashford (needs an article) - does it then carry on to Dover or Canterbury West (or Margate / Ramsgate) ???
• Chatham Main Line and "north Kent coast" or Kent Coast Line are ONE! the trains divide at faversham, part going to dover priory and part to ramsgate. see discussion at Talk:Chatham_Main_Line
• services from Medway (starting from Gillingham?) via North Kent Line - are these not a main line? / the North Kent Line article needs some review (its more the section of track rather than a reflection of the services), seperating out the metro from main line service.

On a browse of the SET amgazine archives the 2004 issue (PDF) lists the lines getting the Class 375 electrostars and describes the lines getting them as "costal and mainline services". The line listed are;

             * "Coast to London via Chatham"
             * "Chatham Weald (Faversham, Gillingham, Longfield)"
             * "Coast to London via Ashford/Tonbridge"
             * "Hastings to London"
             * "Sevenoaks/Tonbridge/Ashford/Tunbridge Wells Weald"

Three are recognisable as routes lsited above while the 2nd and 5th confuse me (i assume the 2nd is the stopper service on the "Coast to London via Chatham" or Chatham Main Line. Anyway this clears up the Chatham Main Line / Kent Coast Line debate, to an extent. Pickle 20:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Rural lines

• Sheerness_Line is missing (a rural line?) from the SET article
• Its unclear (to me) how the system operate in east Kent beyond Ashford. do shuttles operate out of Ashford up via Canterbury west to thanet (margate or ramsgate?), do shuttles go on to folkstone (or even dover, or even thanet)? or do the mainline trains via tonbridge carry on?
• in light of the above can the Kent Coast Line be cleared up to reflect the current situation
• London Bridge to Tunbridge Wells (via Redhill) (from class 508 page)
• Medway Valley Line services that extend beyond padock wood (to tonbridge and a handful to gatwick/three bridges)

Metro (Suburban) Lines

      Suburban services
      The suburban services (called 'Metro’ in the SET timetables) run to:
      
      Sevenoaks: two services - one via Grove Park, and one via Bromley South 
      Hayes line 
      Orpington via Lewisham and via Bromley South 
      Swanley 
      Dartford via: North Kent Line (from which certain trains run to Gillingham); the Bexleyheath Line and the Dartford Loop Line.

Upon looking through the soutehrn e group site at the 376 page [1], they classify/list the metro service as "for services between Victoria, Charing Cross Blackfriars and Cannon Street, and Hayes, Orpington, Swanley and Greenhithe". This is somewhat in conflict witht he above, thus im confused as to wheter metro services reach Sevenoaks and how the services that go up the North Kent Line from Gillingham areus something like this :-

The suburban services (called 'Metro’ in the SET timetables) run from London termni to:

• Hayes on the Hayes line
• Orpington via Lewisham and via Bromley South
• Swanley
• Greenhithe on the North Kent Line, and thus Bexleyheath Line and Dartford Loop Line
• Bromely North to Grove Park shuttle is missing (new article) - i think through trains haven't been resumed

Template:Railway lines in South-East England would also need to be edited in light on any changes above

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sorry if that a bit much but its unclear to me, im thus looking for concensus and more info --Pickle 21:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with everything you say, but to be honest there's no point updating this page given that SET will cease to exist from April. All you have said above should be done on Govia or the new page whenever they announce the exact franchise name. Deano (Talk) 17:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

In theory it will be the same rolling stock and routes (well new one when the CTRL is opened) and i image this data will migrate en mass to the IKF page like this data once migrated from Connex South East to this SET page. Cheers Pickle 19:40, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Recent updates have been more data to the routes and rolling stock. Pickle 20:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

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Progress

• Set up Bromley North Line and hopefully fully linked it up, and help with this, fixing any glaring omissions, spelling and crammer mistakes, etc would be appreciated. Pickle 13:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

• Moved the new Rolling stock and past rolling stock tables into the article

• Pulled class 508s into old stock as all the SET magazine on their website don't evne mention them once. we still need a date for withdrawal

The 508s haven't been withdrawn. Our Phellap 14:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Changed back! - more info on this would help Pickle 05:09, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

• Huge overhaul of Chatham Main Line with branches after Faversham - "Dover Branch" and "Ramsgate Branch". Looks sort of messy, but i have yet to try a html table like the Oxted Line.Pickle 05:09, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

• Created Ashford via Maidstone East LinePickle 05:09, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

• Done a lot of work on various route boxes. Chatham Main Line from coast to Swanley. The whole Ashford via Maidstone East Line, Hastings Line from coast to Tunbridge wells, Marshlink Line, North Kent Line Gillingham to Charlton, Medway Valley Line, and the Sheerness Line. The other SET areas and services within them are beyond me.Pickle 05:09, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

• Created Ashford to Ramsgate (via Canterbury West) line and significant modified Kent Coast Line, I'm not entirely clear if I've done it right, and have terminated everything at Ramsgate and left in the "limited service" box in between Minster and Sandwich. Pickle 15:44, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Photos

"ENDSMEET8.JPG" [2] is a nice photo, showing something different

"375609_at_London_Victoria" [3] is perhaps what is really desired - a shot of a train in a station, but as mentioned [Talk:Southeastern (train operating company)|elsewhere] it doesn't explicitly show its a "South Eastern Trains" train (and for that matter we're also laking a "South Eastern" photo

I'm sure we've had several reverts over the photos issue so debate away the various merits ....

Nosing at User:Our Phellap/Gallery and [trains on wikipedia commons] doesn't IMHO turn up what we're looking for. Pickle 00:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm also not too sure about the 375609 image; it still shows the first Connex livery.

Alteran Ancient (talk) 19:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)