Talk:South Walls

Peninsula

I have made the article consistent by defining it as a peninsular (as indeed the article already does in the second half). It once was an island but no longer.Abtract 12:38, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Yea - this is a tricky issue. Looking at the definitions used in List of Orkney islands and List of islands of Scotland we assume it qualifies as an island. There is a fair amount of discussion at the latter's talk page too. If bridged islands are no longer 'islands' it makes a mockery of common sense as e.g. Skye or Benbecula are no longer islands. However, I have been unable to verify South Walls status relative to the tides prior to the Ayre being bridged. Any information on this subject would be helpful. Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree it's a moot point but it isn't comparible with Skye. The connection is a causeway which simply enhanced a pre-existing sandbank and which is now clearly "land" ... wherease the Skye connection is clearly a "bridge". We must be careful to separate our knowledge of how it came about from what we actiually see on the ground ... what is there now should define whether it is an island or not. The other factor is that wp is an encyclopedia based on citations of other publications ... I can find only mentions of SW as "part of Hoy" (I don't think early 20th C publications really count in this context). It is also different to the Churchill Barriers in that they allow water to pass under them and therefore between the islands they join, whereas this causeway allows no water to pass between Hoy and SW. I am an Orkeylover so bear in mind I only want what is best for WP and O (order debatable), but IMHO SW is not an island anymore. Oh I have inserted the odd sp mistake to amuse u. Abtract 18:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

You raise an interesting point, although I would be reluctant to introduce a complex definition of what kind of human structure qualifies an island to remain insular and what does not. There are other examples of causeways. List of islands of Scotland distinguishes between former, tidal, and bridged islands, with the latter two still qualifying for the list. Inevitably there are anomalies and exceptions and I accept South Walls is an unusual case, but for all practical purposes there is very little difference between it and say South Ronaldsay - and both are islands in my book. Ben MacDui (Talk) 19:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

It looks very much like an island on the map and in photos ([1] - also 31, 32, 33 and [2]). I don't feel that the man-made link alters the status (the point about comparing with Skye). See also shoal. Prior to the road, it was described as a tidal island and I am happy to include it as such. Sanday, by Canna is in a similar position. Finavon 20:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

OK I'm not going to argue the point - to me it is clear that right now sw is not an island but i love the whole place so i am happy to be part of it. Abtract 20:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Island of Walls

@Ben MacDui: What makes this question somewhat confusing is that South Walls is only one part of what is traditionally called the "Island of Walls" (see Ruvigny, p. 8). The "island" also includes North Walls on the far side of the Ayre, and is separated from Hoy proper by an imaginary line drawn from one shore to the other. Thus, when older sources talk about the "Island of Walls", they aren't necessarily implying that South Walls is an island of its own (Ruvigny calls it a "peninsula or sub-island"). Zacwill (talk) 17:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

If there is an easy way out of the conundrum I am not sure what it is. For example, Fordun lists both Hoy and 'Wawys' as distinct islands and there is no way of knowing whether he was speaking of the latter in the strict geographical sense or per Ruvigny. I think the best we can do is explain the different views and treat it as "both/and" rather than "either/or". Ben MacDui 18:48, 13 February 2024 (UTC)