Talk:Stabat Mater

Untitled

~I'm going to add a mention of Arvo Part for his work "Stabat Mater". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.175.50.26 (talk) 01:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Sainthood for Jacopone da Todi

"Blessed" should proceed Jacopone da Todi's name. See the following site for information: http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintOfDay/default.asp?id=1237

(206.246.237.197 13:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC))

Added Josef Rheinberger to composer's list. 66.31.86.243 21:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Reverted to previous version before anonymous user added "Jesus Rocks" in the text. Kouk 18:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Inclusion of Arabic info

I will be deleting it as the information, while interesting is more properly relegated to the article on the stations of the cross. The first link, when run through google translator makes it clear that this it is about the stations of the cross, not the Stabat Mater and the second one is not accessible. Jayran 03:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Some mistakes

I am no expert in Latin, but there seems to be some mistakes in the way the translations have been sequenced. The original text, found here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Stabat_Mater has a different order. I believe the latter is the correct one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Larskavli (talk • contribs) 11:00, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Is there any logical sequence to the list of composers who set it to music? I can't find one ... I suggest either:

• alphabetically, or
• chronologically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.245.212 (talk) 04:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Broken Link

The link to the word for word translation of the text is broken. --12.46.98.17 (talk) 21:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Stood vs was standing

There has been a question of Stood vs was standing in the translation of Stabat Mater. I did a search and this book says "stood". Also Cath encyclopedia says stood. History2007 (talk) 12:53, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Great question! The Latin imperfect tense (stabat) denotes an ongoing action, which would generally be translated into the English past progressive tense, so "was standing" is a better literal translation. However, the fact that the simultaneous action (pendebat, "was hanging") is also an imperfect makes that translation a bit problematic, IMO. A typical "while" statement in English could take the form While (ongoing action), (simple-past action), so "While he was hanging, she stood" sounds slightly better to my ears than the more literal "While he was hanging, she was standing." (Actually, though, I do kind of like "she was standing," because it implies that she was there for the duration of his suffering.) Remember, too, that Edward Caswall's translation is more artistic than literal. My Latin isn't nearly good enough to for me to guess how correct the original Dum (imperfect), (imperfect) is. Peter Chastain ^{[habla, por favor]} 08:58, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Musical

I don't understand, by what criteria works are listed. I would understand a list of works with an article, sorted by alphabet of composer or date of composition (then please mention a date), and a list of composers who wrote a setting which has no article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Translation

Should we look for a more literal translation? I think the reader probably cares more about the meaning of this poem than whether the English version is good poetry. Peter Chastain ^{[habla, por favor]} 08:58, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Quite. I came here because my choir has decided to to Rossini's setting, and one needs to know the meaning of the words one is trying to sing! No harm in there being three versions: Latin; word-for-word English, and poetic English, is there? Nick Barnett (talk) 10:22, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Musical settings

Our list of the composers who have set Stabat Mater has become unreasonably large. It is overweight and is too long to be useful to our readers. We could try to trim it to 'major composers', but that would lead to subjective decisions and possible disagreements. I propose that we reduce the list to the settings for which we have a specific article, which probably amounts to those in Category:Stabat Mater settings. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Literal translation?

The article only provides a non-literal English translation. Should we also add a literal English translation in addition to the existing one? Amadeus1928 (talk) 23:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes please, but the English translation must be available with a free license. You could try asking one of the editors listed at Wikipedia:Translators available#Latin-to-English, preferably one with expertise in medieval or ecclesiastical Latin. Verbcatcher (talk) 01:47, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Are we allowed to do our own translations? Most of it is very straight forward. I'm sure my word choice could be improved, but the grammar is all there. Possessive pronouns are very often understood in Latin, but I tried to add them only when necessary in the English. Groezy (talk) 21:57, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

You can add your own translation if you are competent, and if it is genuinely your own translation and not a paraphrase of an in-copyright translation. I think that medieval ecclesiastical Latin has significant differences from Classical Latin. It may be better to look for a published but out-of-copyright literal translation. Verbcatcher (talk) 09:22, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

I see that you have already added your translation, thank you. My initial thoughts are:

1. The verses become misaligned with a narrow display window. We need to work on the coding, and probably move the sidebar away from this section.
2. I think you are over-using the word 'O', which seems archaic and too churchy.
3. We should follow the capitalisation guidelines in MOS:ISMCAPS: don't capitalise 'cross', 'son', 'only-begotten', 'mother', 'holy', 'virgin'.
4. 'mother of the Only-begotten [one]!' is clumsy and is not readily understood. Monogenēs#Greek New Testament usage leads me to suggest 'mother of her only son'.

Verbcatcher (talk) 09:52, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Vatican and Analecta

I know there are several Stabat Mater variations, but the two most common are the Vatican version and the Analecta version. This article provides the Vatican version. Could the Analecta version also be included? Amadeus1928 (talk) 01:43, 3 July 2023 (UTC)