Talk:Stagecoach Group/Archives/2013

Reversion of Operating Companies Section

After some thought and with some hesitation, I have reverted the operating companies section of this page to the last one which actually referenced articles on the operating companies. I appreciate many of these were redlinks, but some were not, and the change by 195.93.32.8 at 20:31, 17 Nov 2004 effectively unlinked all of these and replaced them by a plain text list.

I appreciate that plain text list went into more detail, but it also de-wikified the entry and lost a lot of cross-navigation possibilities. If that, and the number of subsequent changes to this page, had been by logged-in users I would have initiated a dialogue to find a compromise solution which both keeps the links and the level of detail. The fact that all changes were by (one or more) anonymous users precludes this step.

If those anonymous users are reading this, could I respectfully suggest that the correct approach for this lower level detail is in the (existing or new) linked articles on each company. That way everything remains linkable.

Thanks -- Chris j wood 01:04, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Stagecoach Group Operating Companies

As I thought, perhaps wrongly, that the point of Wikipedia was to offer as much accurate and detailed information possible, I have reinstated the complete list of Stagecoach operating companies, this time including the dead links that prompted the edit to be scrapped.

Except that a link to STAGECOACH SOUTH MIDLANDS is not the same thing as a link to Stagecoach South Midlands, so that existing article is still orphaned. The Wiki standard is not to use all-caps for article titles; so you need to use either (taking the SSM as an example) Stagecoach South Midlands or STAGECOACH SOUTH MIDLANDS. I prefer the former, because the use of all-caps smacks to me of shouting, but that is a personal view. -- Chris j wood 12:40, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The only reason I used all-caps was to distinguish the "operating regions" from that of the legal company names and the trading names. Stagecoach South Midlands seems to be the only company that has a separate entity. Granted, the link points elsewhere just now (can be fixed) but the rest have yet to be created.

The simple solution at the time would have been to edit the expanded 'Operating Companies' section to include these dead links, if they were ever to link to anything, rather than dump the work and revert back to the innaccurate list previously listed.

• The original list was based on the way the fleet news section of Buses magazine reports Stagecoach fleets. The current list seems to be the same as that on the Stagecoach Buses website in so far as region names and brand names are concerned. I guess probably Stagecoach knows best, so I'm happy over those changes.

• On the other hand, neither source makes any reference any more to the old pre-Stagecoach operating company names, so I'm left wondering if these have any current (as opposed to historical) relevance. Speaking as a user of buses in Oxford, I know that the buses I use are branded 'Stagecoach in Oxford', and when the company gets in the local news it is always someone from 'Stagecoach South Midland' who talks to the press, but I had no idea Thames Transit was still in the loop. Is this just a legal lettering/licencing issue, or does that company really still exist and trade?. Is it important enough to be encyclopedic?. I'd appreciate your views.

The Stagecoach set-up is complex at best. First Group and Arriva have simply wiped out all previous trading names and legal company names, no matter of their historical significance. First for example have renamed Strathclyde Buses and Kelvin Central Buses as First Glasgow, Midland Bluebird and Lowland Buses as First Edinburgh, yet all across the UK the buses simply trade as "First". Where I live, Stagecoach buses are branded both Stagecoach Western and Stagecoach A1 Service (the latter carrying the historical blue and white livery rather than the corporate look), but the legal names on the buses read Western Buses Ltd, while the depots carry large signs for Stagecoach West Scotland. It's a similar story for Bluebird and Fife under Stagecoach East Scotland. The reason I thought it best to be encyclopedic, if you like, was to try and shed some light and understanding on the make up of Stagecoach Bus.

• My point, which I perhaps didn't explain well last night, is that I felt that the info on local brands (and perhaps the operating company names) belongs on lower level pages. If you look at Stagecoach South Midlands you will see it always did name the brands, and I'd envisaged that being added to new articles for all the others. Now we have similar information at two levels for SSM, which raises consistency issues. Again I'd appreciate your views.

As I said earlier, only Stagecoach South Midlands seemed to exist as a separate entity. Ideally, however, each separate operating company (or region?) would have its own entry, with legal names, brand names etc. carried under that article, linked from the main Stagecoach page. That doesn't exist as yet, and it's perhaps something that can be worked on. As you're probably no doubt aware, the break up of the National Bus Company and the Scottish Bus Group was haphazard and confusing, and very little of the original companies exist in recognisable form. The Scottish Bus Group article, for example, with links to the operating divisions, irritates me, as some cross-referencing is desperately needed to link where the companies are in the world today. However, it can't be done over night and again is something that needs worked on. Separate articles for Stagecoach Fife, for example, would aid this. Operating regions could perhaps simply link to a very simple article saying something along the lines of "Stagecoach operating region, contains the following legal companies ... trading as ... "

Neither format is ideal, but all the information is surely better than a little, and this can always migrate to new articles as they're created, which is surely an easier task if the information is readily available. (I've only just learned how to create an account, so I should no longer appear anonymous... --Ayrshire--77 12:47, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC))

Thanks -- Chris j wood 13:51, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have updated the family tree to better reflect the current group companies. The diagram on the Stagecoach site appears to be somewhat obsolete now. 84.45.215.163 (talk) 10:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Links to Brian Souter and Ann Gloag

I've restored the (currently red) links to Brian Souter and Ann Gloag, which got lost in the recent considerable improvement to the history of the group. Both are notable characters that probably deserve an article each. Both had/have other interests (Brian in polictics; Ann as a significant figure in the charitable world). Both have plenty of hits on Google (a criteria for personal notability). I've also put a reference to their founding the company in the first para because I felt leaving the first reference to them until the last para of the history section gave a false feel for their importance in the story of Stagecoach. -- Chris j wood 13:08, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Links to Stagecoach Companies

I've reverted to the previous version of this article where the individual trading names are not linked. The reasons for this are two fold. Firstly, the operating divisions are linked to separate articles on those operating division (some have yet to be created), which include all the trading names, fleetnames and company detail. Secondly, there is a section titled "See Also", which links to an article containing a list of these same company names. As these links already exist, linking all the "Stagecoach in..." is nugatory and confusing. For example, Stagecoach Bluebird redirects to Stagecoach East Scotland, which is clearly linked as the operating division of Stagecoach Bluebird, and so on.

There is not really much point in having links to the operating divisions containing this information, a separately linked article containing the complete list, and then all the individual links in the main body, particularly when only some company names in the main article are linked, and not all.--Ayrshire--77 19:42, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Navbox

I have had a go at creating a navbox but it needs work (and on the articles it links to) I have based this on the Template:FirstGroup navbox. You might also like the userbox I've made --Lee Stanley 21:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I have just redesigned the complicated navbox which was in use before. This one resembles the Arriva UK template and uses much less space and includes profit and loss info. Pafcool2 18:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

SGCThis user commutes on a Stagecoach bus.

SGCThis user used to commute on a Stagecoach London bus until it disbanded.

SGCThis user commutes on a Stagecoach bus.

An addendum to the current {{StagecoachGroup}} template. I added a number of pictures to represent the various services offered by Stagecoach in both the United Kingdom (bus, train, and light rail) and under its Coach USA/Canada brand in the United States and Canada. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 15:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Stagecoachdevonlogo.gif

Image:Stagecoachdevonlogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

American English or British English spelling?

This question is relevant for editors who are in North America, such as myself, who, when editing the Coach USA and Coach Canada section, may use the American English spellings unless otherwise advised to use British English. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 19:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Do Stagecoach operate in Ireland?

I hadn't known that Stagecoach operate a brand called CityLink. CityLink busses operate between Dublin, Dublin Airport, and Galway. They have very similar branding and colours to those of the one pictured in the article, so are almost certainly related. Yet there is no mention in the article of Stagecoach operations in this country.

You will also see similar colours and branding on some Kearns Coaches, operating between Banagher, Birr, and Dublin. I don't think Kearns is related. I think they bought some second-hand CityLink busses and didn't bother repainting them. Older Kearns buses are white. They're a small company, and perhaps don't worry so much about their branding.

TRiG (talk) 09:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that the operations in Ireland are just using the same livery for their services than Scottish Citylink. Stagecoach partly own Scottish Citylink, but I don't think that they have anything to do with the Irish services. Arriva436^talk 14:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

According to the Citylink Ireland website: "We are part of the Metroline Group, a major provider of bus services in London, and is a wholly owned division of the global ComfortDelGro Group. The ComfortDelGro Group is a focused land transport group providing bus, taxi and car rental services. The organisation employs over 10,000 people and has operations in the UK, Ireland, Singapore, China and Malaysia." There is no mention of Stagecoach; I believe the brand has simply been licensed. Jamesbrownontheroad (talk) 17:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Suicide

Didn't someone high up in Stagecoach throw himself off Kinnoull Hill in the 1990s? I can't find a news report regarding it, but I heard about it. - Dudesleeper / Talk 14:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Homophobia

I'll refrain from doing anything else with the article, but... This article goes *very* easy on the openly homophobic stance of this company, as anyone in Edinburgh will testify - does the fact that a British company, this century, puts out statements tantamount to saying they'd like to bar gays from using its buses not warrant more than a cursory wee one-sentence mention? I freely admit I can't provide any semblance of NPOV on this, because I think this company and its chairman are very obviously, very openly homophobic, and I feel they should be labelled as such, as "neutrally" as possible; whether they should then be vilified for this stance is another matter, but there's no doubting it exists. (As an aside, in light of the "hug-in" protests, I'm entertained that the program which reverted my "vandalism" was called "Huggle". The irony.) 90.198.51.92 (talk) 21:01, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree completely. I've had edits on this page removed as well. In my experience, if you try to add something to a company page which is critical - even if it is true, verifiable and written with balanced language - it will be contested and removed. In the case of Stagecoach, they are fronted by a truly repugnant individual (Brian Souter) whose bigotry is reflected in his company's policies. Boycott them now, I say.Templetongore (talk) 07:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I've just restored information that I'm ceerrtain was here before about the "bus wars" in Manchester in 2006 that saw Stagecoach drivers ordered to behave like maniacs to drive a rival firm off the road on a lucrative cash-cow route (the 192 Stockport-Manchester). As somebody who was nearly killed on Stockport Road at this time by a lunatic Stagecoach driver suddenly mounting the pavement in an attempt to block a rival, I feel very strongly about this and that it should be recorded as an example of the lengths this company will go to to make a profit. I reported my near-miss to the police, and was assured by a Chief Inspector responsible for traffic control that he was going to go to see the top men at Stagecoach, "bang a few heads together" and recite the riot act. (I accept that this is unsupported anecdotal evidence and would not stand on a wikipedia maain article page, although I'm tempted...) I'm now going to try and look up old news articles about the Bus War. I will add that if my entry is deleted, it will be pretty obvious who deleted it!

Thanks! 86.183.17.96 (talk) 16:03, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Metrolink

I have corrected the bidders for the 2007 Metrolink contract - Govia (which is a JV of Go-Ahead and Keolis and operates in the heavy rail market) did not bid as claimed. The shortlisted bidders were Keolis, Transdev, Stagecoach and Serco (the incumbent). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.185.131.208 (talk) 15:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Stagecoach the largest operator of light rail

Have corrected this claim in the introduction. The claim was debatable in any case as by most measurers the DLR and T&W metro were more substantial than Manchester and Sheffield combined meaning that Stagecoach were the largest operator of tramways in the UK but not light rail. But since the sale of Manchester to RATP Dev they are not the largest operator of Tramways either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.185.115 (talk) 01:09, 29 November 2013 (UTC)