Talk:Steinbach, Manitoba

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Steinbach is a German Name and can be translated as Stonecreek ('Stein'=Stone + 'Bach'='Creek')

Actually, the word "creek" is American. In Steinbach, you will notice that a few businesses and organizations have the name Stony Brook (Dance Co., Fellowship, Pantry, etc.) but never Stony Creek. Look at the official Steinbach website and you will see only "stony brook" as the definition.

Skol fir (talk) 18:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I found mention of a company by the name of Stone Creek Trusses Inc., but they based their name on a misnomer, as far as I am concerned. There are other instances of "Stone Creek" as part of a business name in Steinbach, but they are just the anglicized versions of Stony Brook, and it's close enough to the original to pass muster. :)

Skol fir (talk) 19:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, it is written in the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language that "A creek is an inlet or recess in the shore of the sea that is smaller than a river. A brook is a natural stream of fresh water. A stream is a steady flowing current of water flowing into a channel or watercourse such as a river, brook or ocean. A branch is any tributary stream, smaller than a river or a bayou."

--Skol fir (talk) 00:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Is that High German, Plattduutch, or the same in both? —Michael Z. 2005-07-13 17:03 Z

High German. Plattdeutsch is a dialect of High German spoken esp. by old people in sections of Northern Germany. Maybe "Steen" would be "Stein" in Plattdeutsch. 84.60.97.209 23:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Good History Resource

There is a wealth of information on Steinbach in the books:
Hanover 100 years (author to come...)
Heritage of Steinbach (? actual name and author to come...)

Both of these books can be found at the SRSS library, and possibly at the Jake Epp library Sylvielmna (talk) 22:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Edits in the "Access" section

The "Access" section has "em" dashes separating the main clause from a parenthetic phrase. I would like to point out that the use of the open set en-dash is also acceptable, as I was trying to do, using two hyphens to represent an en dash (given that a normal QWERTY keyboard does not have an easy way to type the dashes). Obviously, User:JonHarder felt it necessary to go against the The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage as they even recommend the use of the open set em-dash. Also you can find more info about this topic at Wiki: Dash. In particular, see the section, "According to most American sources (e.g., The Chicago Manual of Style) and to some British sources (e.g., The Oxford Guide to Style), an em dash should always be set closed (not surrounded by spaces). But the practice in many parts of the English-speaking world, also the style recommended by The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage, sets it open (separates it from its surrounding words by using spaces  or hair spaces (U+200A)) when it is being used parenthetically. Some writers, finding the em dash unappealingly long, prefer to use an open-set en dash. This "space, en dash, space" sequence is also the predominant style in German and French typography." --Skol fir (talk) 00:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia standard is defined in the Manual of Style. The em dash for this use is preferred, and the spaced en dash is an acceptable alternative. I took the double hyphen as an em dash. To enter either without a unicode keyboard use — or –. ✤ JonHarder ^talk 01:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I understand now. Thanks for the information. I bookmarked the Manual of Style from Wikipedia for future reference. Skol fir (talk) 00:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

WT:MOS#Spaces in endash is actively being discussed now. You might be interested in contributing. ✤ JonHarder ^talk 00:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Something about Steinbach, Manitoba

The Russian Mennonites speak Plautdietsch, a German dialect with plattdeutsche origin. I have a question: Is in Steinbach a Mennonite Church with worships? Are Russia-German people from Steinbach speaking Plautdietsch or nowadays English? Grüße von Simon Mayer.

Most people in Steinbach speak English, but a large proportion - certainly a majority among the elderly and a large minority of the under-40s - can speak Plautdietsch. Those born in Canada since 1930 all speak fluent English, but some returnees from Paraguay speak only Plautdietsch fluently. Many also speak and read standard German. Ich kan allein ein Bisschen Deutsch noch sprechen. Ich las etwas besser. Meine Mutter komt von Steinbach und spricht noch fließend Plautdietsch, aber ich nicht.

As for the Mennonite Church. Mennonites are still a large part of the population of Steinbach - I think a majority even now - and there are still many Mennonite churches in the city. When I was young, most of them had English worship services in the morning and German ones at night. But now there aren't so many people who still need the German, so it's been partially abandoned.

Does that answer your question? --Diderot 20:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Ja, vielen Dank für Deine Antwort! Weißt Du vielleicht noch, wie viele Russlandmennoniten in ganz Kanada leben? Perhabs you can answer this, too: How many Russian Mennonites are living all over Canada now? Thank You. Gottes Segen und Frieden für Dich, SimonMayer.

Maybe 150,000 when viewed as an ethnicity. But a lot of those 150,000 don't go to Mennonite churches - or necessarily any church at all - and may not think of themselves as Mennonite at all. I'm ethnically Mennonite, but I neither attend church nor speak the traditional language of the Russian Mennonites. As a religion, it's really hard to say. Mennonites proselytize - maybe half or more of the global Mennonite population is not ethnically Mennonite. Many religious Mennonites identify themselves as evangelicals but resist labeling themselves as Mennonite. As an identity, "Russian Mennonite" is dying off quickly. Every year fewer and fewer people see themselves in that label. --Diderot 18:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I have some experience with Seventh-Day-Adventists in Germany. In my next community (Adventgemeinde) there are a lot of Russian-Germans from Kazakhstan. Their ancastors were Mennonites. When some Russian-Mennonites immigrated to the U.S.A. they heard about the Adventmessage (Adventbotschaft) and they reported their relatives in Russia and they turned to the Seventh-Day-Adventism. Do you know if their descendants in America make uo own closed communities?

Pronunciation?

What's current pronunciation for Steinbach? German, english ? --Tigga en 06:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

"it is STINE-back" Special:Contributions/216.73.67.134 (talk)- address traced to U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba (school)

Fair use rationale for Image:City of Steinbach Seal.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Mennonite or German?

I noticed that the lede had a statement at one point about a strong "German" influence. Someone changed that to "Dutch Anabaptist". This edit was clearly wrong, so I had changed it recently to "Mennonite" as a compromise for those who thought "German" might be too general and would imply direct immigration from the current country of Germany. Now User talk:Dolovis, on the prompting of a sockpuppet User:Babafat22a spreading false accusations of dishonest editing against me, has asked for a citation for this fact. I noticed that you gave a very thorough explanation at User talk:Babafat22a, relating to Dutch anabaptists, about the origins and current make-up of Steinbach, in terms of ethnicity. Thanks for backing me up here on this issue.

Do you have a reference for this assumption, that the Mennonites are over 90% of those that claim German as their first language? With the recent immigration of German Kazachs, through Germany and then to Canada, it might be more likely that only about 80% of all German-speaking residents are of Mennonite heritage, giving a combined proportion of over 40% Mennonite and maybe 15% German (from Germany). I guess this needs to be backed up with some reference, or it might be a point of contention in the future. --Skol fir (talk) 15:42, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it is a pretty hard thing to pinpoint, especially with only the short form census this year. Any results from the long form census paper are likely to be debatable at best, which will not lend that much credibility to this debate. Regardless it is hard to tell from the census as to what the actual Mennonite population is. As a resident of Steinbach the Low German language is dying out and there is a huge increase in the actual German immigration population. The Mennonite influence to me seems primarily historical and even religiously most Mennonites now instead go to Evangelical churches with few actually practicing as Mennonites. But that is about all I can contribute to this discussion right now. Krazytea(talk) 06:56, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

We could just shorten the sentence in the lede to " The city continues to have a strong Mennonite influence today." I would remove the part that says -- "with over 50 percent of the residents claiming Mennonite heritage..." because we cannot back up that claim. It has more to do with language than religion, as the only poll you can use as a reference just says that over 50% claim to have German ethnic origin, and that is a pretty broad statement. --Skol fir (talk) 18:44, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I do not really see a reason why we do not include both, one is language and recent immigration trend that grew from the Low German origins. The other is a religious, language, and historical nature of the original citizens of Steinbach. You are right in that when you say German is too broad but to simply put Mennonite and German influence I think covers everything with three simple words. I guess what I am saying is that there are two distinct (yet related) flavours to Steinbach when we talk about the contemporary influences on the town. Krazytea(talk) 19:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I should also add that the original statement read that over 50% claim German heritage which I think is quite important as it is fairly unique and is what Steinbach has a claim to fame for in Manitoba where it is primarily Anglo-Saxon, French, or Ukrainian (Dauphin) in most of the foundings of the settlements in Manitoba which is why it was included in the first place. Winkler would be the other on the West Reserve. Krazytea(talk) 19:53, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree to those changes that you suggest -- 1) Mennonite and German influence; 2) over 50% claim German heritage. That shows the actual state of the ethnic or cultural origins of Steinbach, without someone thinking that by German, we mean only language, or by Mennonite, we mean only religion. That is a good compromise. --Skol fir (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

german public radio special on steinbach

FYI: steinbach im deutschlandfunk, wednesday, august 14, via internet-stream: www.dradio.de. Maximilian (talk) 23:52, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

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Translation in lead

User:MarcHarder1 has been edit warring to include "(Plautdietsch: /ˈʃte̞nbah/ or /ˈʃte̞nbax/)" in the first sentence of the article. This has been discouraged by a consensus of editors:

• At MOS:FOREIGN: "Foreign terms should be used sparingly."
• At MOS:FIRST: "Be wary of cluttering the first sentence with a long parenthesis containing alternative spellings, pronunciations, etc., which can make the sentence difficult to actually read; this information can be placed elsewhere."
• At MOS:LEADLANG: "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name can be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses." In this instance, the example provided of a language being "closely associated" is Chernivtsi Oblast, located IN THE UKRAINE, where a Ukrainian translation is permitted. While "Plautdietsch" and other languages are mentioned in this article about Steinbach, it certainly does not compare to Chernivtsi Oblast, where the only official language is Ukrainian. Imagine the cluttered disarray Wikipedia readers would be subjected to if every language somewhat associated with a place were listed in the first sentence. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:56, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Plautdietsch is the primary language of ~1/4 of Steinbach, while Chernivtsi Oblast, which you used as an example, has a Romanian population of about 12%, yet has a Romanian translation in the first sentence

Also, Ukraine, not the Ukraine MarcHarder1 (talk) 23:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Given that this community is founded by low-German Plautdietsch speakers, is named by Plautdietsch speakers, and a large and significant low-German population continues in the community, I believe a single non-English pronunciation of this language seems merited. Words in the Wind(talk) 23:21, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

@Words in the Wind: I agree, but not in the first sentence of the article. There are many other places in the article where it would be more useful to readers. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:41, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: an etymology section probably would not hurt. Just looking at other dual language communities, using the obvious French examples Montreal and Trois Rivieres for examples, does provide a less obtrusive dual pronunciation using small font. I understand the MOS opinion though, not sure where it came from and why it does not seem to be enforced anywhere. It looks like by convention this is the common usage on Wikipedia pages. I am open to discussion, just providing my vote though as per your original post. Words in the Wind(talk) 22:57, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Under Media - radio station name

GoldenWest owns the 3 radio stations - yes.

But it’s AM1250 / Mix 96.7FM (CILT) and Country 107.7FM (CJXR). Then there’s SteinbachOnline their web portal, and Homefield - which is geared towards helping local businesses thrive in the southeast - was all are also run by GoldenWest employees. 2604:3D09:B880:C900:DDF6:A507:754C:B65E (talk) 17:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)