Talk:Stormé DeLarverie

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Pronouns

The page has been protected over the issue of Stormé's pronouns. I think what pronouns Stormé used should have a few lines in the article- according to some who have known them, "DeLarverie preferred being called by male pronouns." I recognize there is some controversy over this, but by Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns that reflect that person's expressed gender self-identification.

https://www.wnyc.org/story/gay-rights-activist-and-stonewall-rebel-dies-93/

Tinyds (talk) 05:15, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Such a change would require some stronger sources, i.e. something stronger than a quotation from a solitary male acquaintance that was given after her death, which is effectively hearsay. Given how active she was in the lesbian community, it is particularly important to get this right. Locochoko (talk) 05:39, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

The article is well-sourced with statements by her close friends who all use she/her, as well as with statements by DeLarverie herself. Even the WNYC source includes she/her:

Longtime friend Lisa Cannistraci said it was in DeLarverie's nature to fight back. “I know she was involved physically in the altercation. Because that was her way. She fought fire with fire,” Cannistraci said.'

Henderson, the man quoted, is the only person I've ever heard use he/him for Stormé. I don't know how well he knew her, or even if he knew her at all to speak of, but he's really unusual in this. To privilege his opinion over all the other, more reliable, sources would really be undue weight. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:54, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Here is an interview with Fred Sargent, who was there that night and saw Stormé start the riot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3DFJC0try0 Fred later became an NYPD hostage negotiator. Fred says SHE was a butch lesbian, not trans. 74.88.66.134 (talk) 08:06, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Fred Sargeant is notoriously anti-trans, I wouldn’t exactly call him a trustworthy source. I’d say just to compromise we use they/them Serok Ayris (talk) 18:02, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Even leaving Sargeant out, there is still only one person who used he/him for Storme, and that was after Storme died. All other sources, without exception, use she/her. There is no indication that Storme ever used they/them, even in a community were many people used alternate pronouns. There just isn't any RS sourcing to support a change - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:35, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2020

Instead of saying she was a butch lesbian can it say gay rights activist? 2600:1700:7E80:860:CC44:CBFD:4988:A8AB (talk) 05:32, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

why would “butch lesbian” need to be cut out? Locochoko (talk) 05:42, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done Butch lesbian is used as an appropriate descriptor. AutumnKing (talk) 11:07, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Persisent changing of pronouns against all sourcing and consensus

'Tis the season. One year ago we needed to semi-protect the page for this same reason. The disruption by IPs has begun again, so I have reinstated the semi-protection. Editors must have an established account to edit the page. As I also edit here, if anyone wants to contest my semi-ing of the page, feel free to do so at WP:RFP. Happy Pride, - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 23:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)