Talk:Stow, Lincolnshire

History

Please contribute to this: it is a long time since the Romans left.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Etymolgy of Stow

The definition given of 'holy place' seems to match a number of the places called Stow in the east of england (e.g. Stow Fair, Lincolnshire with it's anglo saxon nunnery, or a place on King street, which local oral history said was 'a roman temple'). My father always told me that Stow or Stowe always meant an ancient holy place, and you should always respect your father, but the derivation is not supported by published etymology - which just have it meaning 'Place' :

• Etymology on line
• wiktionary

for example.

I have not edited the entry, because I have noticed that there is this apparant, possibly coincidental, connection with significant places of some type. But I think we need a proper linguist to take it further.--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 14:10, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

According to this source, your father may have been right. Marco polo (talk) 01:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

which, I notice, has its own list of refernces that might be helpful (some well-known)- RH

• Watts; Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-names 583
• E. Ekwall; Dictionary of English Place-Names 448
• Cameron; Dictionary of Lincolnshire Place-names 118
• A.D. Mills; Dictionary of English Place-Names 440-1
• Cameon et al.; Place-names of Lincolnshire -

Chepstow here. My understanding of stow is that it referred to a place where people gathered, not necessarily a holy place. The stow in Chepstow refers to its importance as a trading (ceap, as in Chipping Norton, Cheapside, etc.) centre. Chepstow was never an especially holy place. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I think Ghmyrtle has the right end of the stick. C. S. Lewis's distinction between "word's meaning" and "speaker's meaning" is relevant here; a place for which the word stow was used may in fact have been a holy place, but that doesn't mean that the word itself meant "holy place". Here's the relevant entry in Bosworth & Toller's dictionary. I'd remove or alter the "Holy Place" sentence in the article. Deor (talk) 13:38, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Some more references - Percy H. Reaney (1969), The Origin of English Place-Names, Routledge and Paul (p. 126) says; "OE stow 'place' was used of a place where people assembled and is found in hundred names like Broxtow (Nt) 'the place of Brocwulf '."

A M Smith (1956) English Place-Name Elements: Part II, English Place-Name Society,Cambridge University Press (p. 158) says; "stow OE, 'a place, a place of assembly, a holy place'. (1) This el., like stede, was certainly used in a general sense 'place' (glossing Lat locus 'place', WW 92.8, 334.33)."

That's all I could see on a Google Books "snippet view". Alansplodge (talk) 16:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Mills, A. D., "Stow", A Dictionary of British Place Names, revised edition (Oxford University Press, 2011), online [1]:

‘assembly-place, holy place’, OE 'stōw';

"stow, n.1". OED Online. March 2013. Oxford University Press. [2] (accessed March 21, 2013):

Etymology: Old English stów (feminine) = Old Frisian stô , Old Norse *stó in eldstó fireplace < Germanic *stōwō < *stō- (sta- ):

Klein, E., A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the English Language (Elsevier Publishing, 1966), p. 1520:

All these words derive from I.-E. *st(h)āu-, *st(h)ū-, 'stiff, upright', which is an enlargement of base *st(h)ā-, 'to stand'.

--Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 20:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Griffiths (User Friendly Dictionary of OE) gives "spot, site", that's all I can lay my hands on ATM, but OE is notoriously tricky because it is a strongly regional language, and was used over some 7 centuries. Rich Farmbrough, 01:46, 22 March 2013 (UTC).

Bosworth A Dictionary of the Anglo-Saxon Language gives A place, dwelling place, habitation ; locus, maniso, habitaculum - comparing it to similar words in Anglo-Frisiac and Icelandic. Many derivative terms (Bristol - bridge town, oretstow - battleground and the above mentioned ceapstow) show that it has more genericity than simply "holy place". Rich Farmbrough, 02:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC).

Thanks to everyone who replied. Some useful stuff. I'll link this discussion on a couple of other pages.--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 07:31, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

One more- J.R Clark Hall (4th Ed) specifically includes "Holy place" as a meaning used in the Anglo-Saxon laws Rich Farmbrough, 20:24, 23 March 2013 (UTC).