Talk:Studebaker

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Studebaker/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:20, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll review this article tonight. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:20, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

The first issue I see, before I go further, is something in the refs. For the journal and book, of 50ish and 121 pages, respectively, I would greatly prefer that the individual page was noted for each citation. This way if someone were to read the book they would easily know where to go. If this is possible to fix in a timely manner then do so, if not I might let it slide, since it's not a huge number of pages. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

After actually reading through the article, I see what you did with the page numbers now, so nevermind what I said above. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 21:09, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's the issues I found:

• "Photographs of the brothers and their parents are reproduced in the 1918 company history, which was written by Erskine after he became president, in memory of John M.[4]:p.5 whose portrait appears on the front cover. Directors Frederick Samuel Fish and Henry Goldman are also pictured in the book." I'm not sure of the relevance of this to the article itself. Feels a little tangential to me, but if you think it should be kept in I won't force the issue.
• Any references to John M need to have a period for his initial (John M.). Same with any other names like that.
• "During the height of westward migration and wagon train pioneering, half of the wagons used were Studebakers. They made about a quarter of them, and manufactured the metal fittings for other builders in Missouri for another quarter-century." I'd like to see a cite added for that.
• "The best people were buying Studebaker sulkies, broughams, clarences, phaetons, runabouts, victorias, and tandems." what is meant by "best"?
• "The wealthiest could buy for $20,000 a four-in-hand smart enough to carry a dozen swells in style," huh?
• "In 1889, incoming President Harrison" link harrison
• "The worldwide economic depression of 1893 caused a dramatic pause in sales and the plant closed down for five weeks, but industrial relations were good and the organised workforce declared faith in their employer." cite should be added here too.
• "(See main article Studebaker Electric (automobile).)" Work the link into the prose itself, rather than self-referencing, which is discouraged.
• The Garford section is unreferenced.
• "Under the agreement with Studebaker" when did the agreement occur? Same for the EMF one.
• First para of E-M-F needs to be cited.
• "After taking over E-M-F's facilities, Studebaker sought to remedy the customer dissatisfaction by paying mechanics to visit each disgruntled owner and replace defective parts in their vehicles, at a total cost of US$1 million." and "From that time, Studebaker's own marque was put on all new automobiles produced at the former E-M-F facilities as an assurance that the vehicles were well built." at least one of those should be cited, both is fine too.
• "Buses, fire engines, and even small rail locomotives were produced using the same powerful six-cylinder engines." cite needed
• "In 1925, the corporation's most successful distributor and dealer Paul G. Hoffman came to South Bend as vice-president" commas before and after Hoffman.
• "In 1926, Studebaker became the first automobile manufacturer in the United States to open a controlled outdoor proving ground on which, in 1937, would be planted 5,000 pine trees in a pattern that spelled "STUDEBAKER" when viewed from the air. " cite needed
• "By 1929, the sales list had been expanded to 50 models and business was so good that 90 per cent of earnings were being paid out as dividends to shareholders in a highly competitive environment." cite
• For the 1920s facilities, link the cities rather than bolding them.
• "$6m," I'd either write out the number or say 6/six million.
• World War II section is unreferenced.
• "Studebaker prepared well in advance for the anticipated post-war market and launched the slogan First by far with a post-war car." cite needed.
• The images start to bundle up in the middle, messing with the column widths. A few of them could be moved down closer to the end of the article.
• "The new trunk design prompted a running joke that one could not tell if the car was coming or going." cite
• ""Avanti II". (See main article Avanti cars (non-Studebaker).)" combine to make a link; avoid self-references in text.
• The final few paragraphs are nearly unreferenced (between last automobiles produced and network and other assets), the first two are fully unref'd.
• Both date styles are used (month day, year and day month year). Stick to one. Since it's a US company it would be the former. By that same token, there is some British English used in this article rather than American English (i.e. favourite). That needs to be fixed.

I was originally planning on putting the article on hold, but due to the volume of issues I found, I'm going to fail it as a GAN. When the issues are fixed and the article is re-nom'd, it should pass with little difficulty, since I hit on pretty much every issue. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 02:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Former proving grounds

(This anonymous question has been moved from section 'Exit from auto business') "Studebaker's proving grounds were acquired by its former supplier, Bendix Corporation, which later donated the grounds for use as a park to the St. Joseph County, Indiana, parks department. As a condition of the donation, the new park was named Bendix Woods. The grove of 5,000 trees planted in 1937 that spelled out the Studebaker company name still stands and has proven to be a popular topic on such satellite photography sites as Google Earth.[26] Today, the former proving ground is owned by Robert Bosch GmbH and it continues to be active some 80 years after it was built." -

well...

- if it was donated to the St. Joseph County, Indiana, parks department, it cannot also be owned today by Robert Bosch GmbH and continue 'to be active some 80 years after it was built'. It's one or the other (or neither), but it can't be both. So, which is it?

A good question, and I see we have no sourcing for any of this stuff. In looking for some, I find here that Bosch pulled out of South Bend in 2010-11. Until we get proper verification, all the doubtful content has to go. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 04:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

-- both are true. Why would you say "it can't be both"? A proving ground is a large piece of land. In this case, Bosch donated 170 acres to the County for a park (including the trees), and retained the remainder. Contrary to the assertion they pulled out in 2011, they still list the facility as being active: New Carlisle Test Facility — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.123.64 (talk) 22:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that's the verification we've been waiting for, and it's confirmed by the 2012 brochure South Bend's Titans of Industry published by St Joseph County, Indiana. I've now updated the section. Bjenks (talk) 03:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Watchmaking

Could this article also include a reference to the South Bend Watch Company? This was set up when two of Clement's sons, Clement Jr and George, acquired what was left of the Columbus Watch Company in 1903. They remained a manufacturer of high quality pocket watches until folding in 1929. The watches were sold under two brand names: "South Bend", which were available from normal retail outlets and "Studebaker", which were sold by mail order.Flanker235 (talk) 10:11, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Good suggestion. Since there's already an article on the watchmaker, I've listed it under "See also", the best possible linkage. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 15:08, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure! Flanker235 (talk) 12:01, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Inspired by the P-38 aircraft?

According to the wiki article on the P-38 aircraft, "The P-38 was also the inspiration for Raymond Loewy and his design team at Studebaker for the 1950 and 1951 model-year Studebakers.^[118]" , along with a picture of a 1950 Studebaker Champion which links to an article on said automobile. However, there isn't a single mention of the P-38 anywhere in that article, or even in this main Studebaker article. Would anyone like to add it? --moeburn (talk) 08:58, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Studebaker Motor Company

Although I can't find too much about the company on the website, it appears that someone has bought the name and is going to make cars under the Studebaker name again. http://www.studebakermotorcompany.com/home/home/

This will probably require a new section in the article eventually. Mrs269 (talk) 06:52, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Not really. This issue has previously come up here (2007), and here (2010). A new automaker might warrant a separate article if notability meets the criteria. It can't be tacked on to the established Studebaker article merely because of the transfer or reinvention of the name. For comparison, check out Studebaker Avanti vs Avanti (car). Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 14:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

German forebears

I reverted this edit and two following ones in order to correct multiple referencing errors which seemed to have been inadvertently triggered by an inexperienced IP editor. On close examination, I formed the opinion that the wording changes (including redundantly spelling out citation details from the footnote) did not significantly add to the import of the section while being more clumsily written. I have advised the IP to discuss these and any future changes on this page, so that we can find consensus and help him/her get the referencing right. Bjenks (talk) 04:14, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

German Wikipedia Translation https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Studebaker_Corporation#Fr%C3%BChe_Geschichte2A02:8109:25C0:6C8:B9A4:F6F2:BC9E:981F (talk) 16:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

External links modified

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Fate

Nearly all the articles I've seen for defunct automakers have an explanation for their fate. Here it doesn't mention the fate. I'm interested to find out what Studebaker's fate was. If any of Wikipedia's editors are automotive historians, maybe they can explain to me Studebaker's fate and possibly edit the article so that it mentions that.--Kevjgav (talk) 12:43, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

The section 'Industry price war brings on crisis' and following paragraphs outline the reasons for Studebaker's demise (fate). If you want more detail, check out the referenced sources. If after that you have constructive ideas for improving the article, you are free to submit suitable changes. If you can find a more fully detailed theory about the company's fate, the idea is to outline it briefly and present the details of the source for verification. Bjenks (talk) 16:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

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Studebaker in popular culture? Allan Sherman recording of "Green Stamps"

Allan Sherman, apparently in 1964, made comedy recording (using music of "Ojos Verdes" -- Green Eyes in English) which used the line "they promise me the first Studebaker made in 1965", which is followed by laughter. Half-jokingly, was there a problem with bringing in a car from Canada? Studebaker, although it shut down South Bend, Indiana plant in December 1963, was still making cars in Canada and that didn't end until 1966.

But please don't even think about including such trivia in the article! Bjenks (talk) 04:48, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Seriously, there are other cases on Wikipedia where an article is about ____ and there is included a section about "____ in popular culture". But I was thinking the above remark about Allan Sherman might be interpreted as original research, thus working against putting it in this (Studebaker) article anyway.

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Changing/removing the company website?

The company website added around 11 years ago with the creation of the infobox is for a new company unrelated to the original Studebaker (a fact which is noted on the website). Also, the website appears poorly maintained and it isn't clear that the "company" has ever made anything. As such it seems inappropriate to have the website listed in this article.

This issue appears to have come up previously here, here, and here.

However, when I attempted to edit the source to remove the reference to the website, I couldn't do it. There appears to be no reference to it in the code, and when I removed everything in the infobox just as a test, *the website was still there*. What's going on here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThatVanGuy (talk • contribs) 06:10, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

conservation in mainspace

This is not quite right. My grandfather, Randolph Guthrie, was the chairman of Studebaker. Richard Nixon was his law partner. My grandfather was also the lawyer for Mercedes which is how Mercedes cars came to be sold in Studebaker dealerships. I once asked him why Studebaker stopped making cars. He told me that the problem was the UAW. They wanted to use Studebaker to set a pattern for the other car companies. They wanted labor costs that were ridiculous. I asked him, "didn't they realize you would go bankrupt?" He said that in the 1960's you could not talk sense to the unions. All they wanted was more. They did not believe that they would shut down car production.

removed from page and placed here... JarrahTree 02:53, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

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Article issues and classificatin

Reassess the article. Fails B-class criteria #1 and #4.

External links

Twelve entries in the "External links" section.

• ELpoints #3) states: Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
• LINKFARM states: There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
• WP:ELMIN: Minimize the number of links. -- Otr500 (talk) 18:12, 12 February 2023 (UTC)