Talk:Markazu Saqafathi Sunniyya

Markaz Knowledge City

There are lots of adjectives, but no explanation of what it actually is, or will be. Arjayay (talk) 09:16, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. I've now tagged this with a POV tag, since it seems this article's main purpose is to talk up the subject without explaining much of what it is. Note that a recent major contributor has now been blocked for socking and has created a plethora of articles connected to Markaz. ~ Rob^Talk 15:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Trim content

The content needs to be trimmed per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. I removed a bunch of external links per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 12:23, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 4 June 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Sunni Cultural Center, Karanthur. SSTflyer 01:31, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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Markaz → Markazu Ssaqafathi Ssunniyya – WP:PRECISE, as this is the institution's official name [1]. It's also not the primary topic for "Markaz": although it currently receives almost twice as many page views as the next candidate Markaz (country subdivision) [2], it's hardly known under this short name outside of Kerala, India, and it doesn't show up anywhere in the first couple of pages of google results. Uanfala (talk) 10:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Omni Flames (talk) 00:21, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Alternative Proposal The current title is a problem, and not just because the subject institution probably is not the primary topic (it gets most page views because that's where you end up when you search for "Markaz"). "Markazu Ssaqafathi Ssunniyya" is a (very) non-standard transliteration for most of the arabic جامعة مركز الثقافة السنية الإسلامية which appears in the article. It means approximately "Sunni Cultural Centre University". The transliteration given misses out the word for University. "Markaz" means "Centre". A better title, in English, would be Sunni Cultural Center, Karanthur which would be consistent with the article title of its branch in Dubai - Sunni Cultural Center, Dubai - and gets a few Google hits so might well be its WP:COMMONNAME in English. When the move is done, Markaz (disambiguation) can be just "Markaz". (I hope this all helps, I just stumbled across this by accident!) Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:29, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Shhhnotsoloud, this is indeed a very non-standard transliteration and it gave me a bit of head-scratching, but it appears to be the one the institution is using on its logo (visible on its website: [3]). The full name given there is Jamia Markazu Ssaquafathi Ssunniyya. Uanfala (talk) 20:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

@Uanfala: Hello! Yes I see that. Wikipedia "prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)" rather than an official name, see WP:COMMONNAME, but of course this is subjective assessment. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

• Support the alternative proposal unless significant evidence shows that people are searching for "Markazu Ssaqafathi Ssunniyya". The odd English name they're using doesn't appear to be searched much from what's been presented above, and it's obviously a nightmare to type up. I've also seen multiple sources spell it different ways, which further reduces the chance that someone will wind up where they want. Going with a more common and easier to type name is sensible. ~ Rob^Talk 15:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. How can you verify that it is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The views are definitely not a result of its page title. Besides, the other name is not suitable as per WP:COMMONNAME. Filpro (talk) 18:44, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

@Filpro: Why the current article doesn't meet the criteria at WP:PTOPIC has already been explained (albeit briefly) in the nomination and in Shhhnotsoloud's comments. I'm not sure I understand how the views are definitely not a result of its page title. Of course some views are a result of incoming links and some are from people searching for "Markaz". I don't know of a way to disentangle these two, but it's still sensible to use the total number as a proxy for the latter. Uanfala (talk) 21:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I think it has been established that the current article isn't the primary topic for Markaz and I take it as fairly uncontroversial that Markaz (disambiguation) should be moved to Markaz. If anyone has any objections, they're welcome to raise them at Talk:Markaz (disambiguation)#Requested move 20 June 2016. Uanfala (talk) 05:55, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 20 June 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Closing per WP:MULTI. Discuss at Talk:Markaz (disambiguation)#Requested move 20 June 2016. (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 19:43, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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Sunni Cultural Center, Karanthur → Markaz – common name, redirects here – IbrahimMogra (talk) 16:06, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

@IbrahimMogra and SSTflyer: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 18:30, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

• This went through an RM already. Consider a move review. Ping SSTflyer who performed the move. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 18:15, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
• Sunni Cultural Center is not name of Markaz. Lets move to Markaz or Markazu Ssaqafathi Ssunniyya IbrahimMogra (talk) 18:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Markaz (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:16, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

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University

Markaz has been mentioned as a national university, while there is no any citations mentioning same.--Irshadpp (talk) 13:45, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

@Irshadpp: In the article, the Markaz was mentioned not as a national university but a national Islamic university as per sources. Beware your words and requesting you to stop vandalism. ❁ᴀᴜᴛʜᴏʀ❁ (❁ᴅᴏᴍ❁) 14:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

It is only Islamic seminari, not university, which doesn't have accreditation as university.--Irshadpp (talk) 04:59, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

While searching in UGC (University grants commission) I didn't find any university like this. What is the registered name in UGC?--Irshadpp (talk) 06:24, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

There is no university named Markazu Saqafathi Sunniyya as per Indian Universities Grants Commission. Only media from gulf countries mention it as University because the word Jamia which is an Arabic word, means University which most of the Islamic seminaries used. Even in the website of the Markazu Saqafathi Sunniyya, itself not claiming that it is university. (Nothing but Established in 1978, Markaz has been a name not just of an Islamic University, but of a culture that the Muslims Community in India seems to be representing over the past three decades.). So the word university should be removed from the article, and should be replaced by Seminary.--Irshadpp (talk) 09:49, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Doing as stated above, as there is no further comments..--Irshadpp (talk) 07:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Numbers

Until 8 February 2020, there was a sentence as follows:

It has roughly 20,000 students studying under faculty of Islamic studies, Arts, Science, and Theology.
"About Us | Markaz". markazonline.com. Archived from the original on 25 May 2016. Retrieved 7 May 2016.

On 8 February 2020, this edit was done,[4] changing 20,000 to 43,000.

What the citation says is:

Markaz operates more than 50 institutions and many sub-centers across the world including Orphanages, School of Qur’an, Colleges of Shari’a, Secondary and Higher Schools, Arts and Science Colleges, Engineering Colleges, Orphan Home Care, Vocational Training & Technical Institutes, Medical and Professional institutes, Management and Finishing Schools, Masjids, Hospitals, Hostels for Girls…etc. Currently, more than 20,000 students are direct beneficiaries and thousands of others advantage indirectly by Markaz.

Inspired by the teachings of Holy Qur’an and Prophet Muhammed (s) Markaz provides complete free education and day today expenses of more than 5,000 students including orphans, Sharia’a & Qur’an students, Kashmir boys…etc.

So it is clear that the figure of 43,000 is not supported by the citation. The "more than 20,000 students" appears to refer to the "more than 50 institutions and many sub-centers across the world" operated by Markaz; i.e. not just the national Islamic university at Kozhikode.-- Toddy1 (talk) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

This kind of statements required citations from third party sources. Here available it is from own website. Irshadpp (talk) 08:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:SELFSOURCE says that "self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves" subject to various criteria including that "the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim." If the citation had clearly and unambiguously backed the claim, then I think it could have been allowed under WP:SELFSOURCE. But the citation did not support the content.-- Toddy1 (talk) 16:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

But this is a claim, that we are having 20000/43000 students. For just information, like date of starting, who was founder like this we may depend on primary sources. It is my understanding.--Irshadpp (talk) 11:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Another copy-paste violation

I've located another copy-pasting violation on this article; I say "another" because this has been a recurring issue on this page going back at least eight years. Currently, the issue is with the "About Markaz" section, and the text in question has been pasted onto this article before:

"Markaz was established in the year 1978 under the Societies Registration Act XXI of 1860. It has its headquarters in Calicut, Kerala, India and offices all over India, the Gulf countries, the Europe and America. Markaz operates more than 50 institutions and many sub-centers across the world including Orphanages, School of Qur’an, Colleges of Shari’a, Secondary and Higher Schools, Arts and Science Colleges, Engineering Colleges, Orphan Home Care, Vocational Training & Technical Institutes, Medical and Professional institutes, Management and Finishing Schools, Masjids, Hospitals, Hostels for Girls etc."

This text has been copy-pasted from two separate websites associated with the article's subject: the organization's About Us page and another page soliciting donations for the article's subject.
This copyvio text was already inserted by a now-blocked sock farmer years ago and contributed to his topic ban.
Per WP:DCV, I'll remove the content in question now and place the appropriate template on the page. That leaves one sentence in the section which seems alright (though I haven't checked it closely yet), so I'll move that sentence along with its two sources up into the lead since it refers to the number of students. I hope that the copyvio won't be repeated, though given the fact that the same general text has been repeated for so many years, I won't hold my breath on that. MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I just realized that the "20,000 students" line is also a copyvio from the same sources, and was also a part of User:Msoamu's consistent copyvio text pushed on this page almost verbatim. I'll be removing that as well, per the same policy. MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:11, 15 July 2021 (UTC)