Talk:Supervillain

Are Magneto and Darth Vader supervillians?

I would question the inclusion of Magneto and Darth Vader (and Vader's screenshot) in the list of supervillians. Both characters are too ambiguous to qualify, IMO, and would be more accurately classified as anti-heroes. Magneto is an ideologue, but his goal isn't something as nebulous as "world domination", it is to protect mutants from persecution. Magneto often worked with the X-Men, and even led Xavier's school for a while. It's common for supervillians to occasionally team up with the superhero to defeat an even greater evil (a plot probably inspired by the real history of World War II), but Magneto's sympathy for Xavier's idealism goes beyond that. As for Vader, George Lucas sees him as a tragic hero, not a villain - and the whole premise of Return of the Jedi was that there was still good in him and that he was not irredeemably evil. Firebug 04:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That's a tough call. While both eventually evolved into more of an anti-hero, they both definitely started as supervillains, and certainly would be most likely recognized by the average person as such. Although maybe not so much Magneto on reflection, as the first X-Men movie (most people's first intro to Magneto I would imagine) did give a detailed backstory and explanation for his actions. Vader may have had some "good" in him, but a) it was not shown at all in the first two movies and b) this does not disqualify one from being a supervillain, IMO. I would certainly support replacing the Vader picture with someone more "supervillainy" however. Turnstep 14:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to remove Magneto from the list because (a) he's much more ambiguous than the other cases, and (b) as you point out, many people first saw Magneto in the X-Men films where he was more of a sympathetic character (especially in X2). Other popular media, such as the 1990s Fox X-Men cartoon (which featured a very sympathetic portrayal of Magneto except for the first two episodes) also reflect this. If anyone has an objection to this removal, please discuss further on the talk page. Firebug 20:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I think Magneto should stay on the list. He was still a villain in the aforementioned movies. He is more ambiguous and complex than, say, Doctor Doom, but he is still the arch-nemesis of the X-Men and the ying to Xavier's yang. In X2 he tried to kill all humans, which is pretty supervillainous, IMHO. Simon Beavis

Indeed. Many supervillains are capable of benevolence. For instance, Doctor Doom's protection of his country. Magneto's a terrorist, and many terrorists have understandable frustrations but deplorable methods.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyblade~enwiki (talk • contribs) 01:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Nice arguments. Maybe we should await the X3 movie before adding Magneto to the list. With regard to Darth Vader, I would say that he rather performs the role of a general in Star Wars. Of course he's a villain but he's hardly a mastermind. If you wanted to give a Star Wars example in the wiki, then this should be Palpatine/Darth Sidious, imho. Virtually all (if not all, I haven't counted yet, I must admit) traits mentioned are applicable to him. Scathane (talk) 09:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Now you guys are just being silly. Magneto was a premier supervillain for years until his "ambiguity" came to light. That is how he's known and his portrayal in the films is proof-positive. Moral ambiguity doesn't disqualify a super-villain. Same with Darth Vader. Let's not over-analyze this. This sin't a Marvel or Star Wars page to debate the merits of the villains. 68.166.68.84 22:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh don't be ridiculous, of course Magneto and Darth Vader are Supervillains.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.232 (talk) 23:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

• • • • Magneto is not a supervillain. If anything, he is an anti-hero. He has moral principles. He sees himself as defending his people (mutants) against forces that want to destroy them. Consider -- would a French resistance figher in WW 2 -- who firebombed Nazi forces -- be a hero? Or a villain?

The stem article's definition of supervillain requires a criminal intent -- which is probably correct. Supervillains have crass motivations -- they want to steal large sums of money or priceless objects. They can have power motivations -- they want to rule the world. They can have revenge motivations. But saving one's people from utter destruction is not usually one of them -- even if that motivation leads to conflict with the goody-goody, always obey the law superhero types. Even Batman breaks the law -- for good purposes! Thus, even if he is sometimes cast in stories where he has a typical supervillain motivation -- overall, Magneto is NOT a supervillain. He is an anti-hero.

Darth Vader is a villain -- there is no doubt. He works for the dark side -- he joined the Emperor in overturning the rule of law. He has a typical crass supervillain motivation.

Galactus -- however -- should not be on this list. Galactus is not even a villain, let alone supervillain. He has no crass motivation. He barely even cares whether the planets he consumes have beings on them or not. The fact that he needs to consume worlds to live doesn't make him a supervillain -- even if it puts him in conflict with superheroes like the Fantastic Four. The fact that the FF have managed to convince him to leave Earth alone should be proof that he is simply a force of nature, not a supervillain. Is the wind a supervillain? Chesspride 66.19.84.2 (talk) 04:54, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

List of Female Supervillains

"List of Female Supervillains" should not redirect to this page. It should be its own page. 70.157.236.232 (talk) 20:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

About citations and vagueness in definition of "Supervillain"

Now yes, I'm pretty sure you guys have found the lack of citations a problem in itself, but the main beef I have is how this results in the precise parameters for supervillainry becoming awfully sketchy.

Part of the problem lies in the currently in-use citations themselves. Not all of them are really focused on the supervillain concept itself, and none of them give anything close to an actual working definition for "supervillain"; even those that do focus on the supervillain concept go about as if the reader is already perfectly familiar with what a supervillain is. That also makes their current use as citations dubious in regards to context within the article.

If readers were to go solely from what can be gleaned from both the article in its current form and the citations, they would infer that the supervillain concept is apparently most prevalent in comic books, where it was pretty much codified. I'm not disputing this or anything, but the reader must know why this is the case. More specifically, why is it that villains in other mediums who are practically identical to supervillains (i.e. Sauron, Palpatine, Ganon) are never considered such either in their respective articles or elsewhere (Palpatine is mentioned as such on this article, but the citations don't back that up in any way)? I mean, we have a "List of comic book supervillains", but no "List of (insert other medium here) supervillains". For what reason?

Abodos (talk) 03:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

As you can see this is a article that can be expanded. Feel free to do so. − Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 15:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Dubious alt title

Can any source confirm that "supervillainess" is more common for females than simply "supervillain"? As far as I know "villain" is not male-exclusive. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 23:34, 27 February 2016 (UTC) I think that a villain is a bad guy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.36.25.46 (talk) 13:50, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

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