Talk:Tadeusz Mazowiecki

Unplinglishing this article

I found this article through googling the word "Plinglish", hence I will try and explain my changes.

"Działacz socjalny" - Social Worker!! So am I to understand he was paid by the state to tell poverty stricken women that unless they improved their hygiene the state would take away custody of their children????????????? I think you mean philanthropist.

"Graduate", according to dictionary.com means to finish a degree, which this article goes to great length to explain he doesn't have.

Excluded - So he was still a member but no one would talk to him???

Affiliated is way too vague. If he had come along every Friday to sweep the floor he would have been affiliated.

"an internal opposition" is really difficult to understand, but the word "fronda" is not easy to translate. Here it is also important to use the correct article because saying "an" suggests that PAX was absolutely riddled with different opposition groups.

Don't feel confident about this change but if Znak was not a party what was it doing with representatives in the Sejm?

"He discussed the students' march which took place in March 1968." With whom? His mother maybe? I'm making a huge assumption as to the actual meaning and I'm plumping for this: "He raised the issue of ... in the Sejm"

I've, just read the Polish version and now know that this is a reasonably adequate change. (I'm not going to go into the meaning of "interpelować")

"which aimed at supporting the workers from Gdańsk" - What in Hell's name is the word "aim" doing in this sentence? This is a clear case of never using 3 words when 12 will do.

I really don't like the sound of "Board of Experts", but it is a direct translation. It sounds terrible in English. Who proclaimed these guys "Experts"? Themselves?

"he spent a year abroad, where he was talking to politicians and representatives of trade unions". When you don't know how to use the past continuous tense, don't try using words like "Affiliated".

"Met with" is my bette noire. To meet takes a direct object. If you really want to add the preposition "with" please add the particle "up" and know that you're adding POINTLESS UNNECESSARY WORDS.

I've done the first bit, and I'm not claiming its perfect, someone else can correct the rest. However, I do wish to stress that it is of utmost importance to get the language right if you want native-English speaking people to read it. I know I'm being harsh but it's very tiresome to read gobbledygook and frequently I'd prefer to read the Polish, because even though I understand the language worse, I understand the text better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.115.97.180 (talk) 19:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Economic reforms

Hmmm, it seems we have a weird revert war going on here for this edit. I can easily source that fragment, since it's what pretty much every decent book on Polish transformation says, but before I do I wonder what is contentious about this fragment. Is there something I'm not getting here? //Halibutt 10:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Halibutt, I am someone who really has very little knowledge of the matter in question. But claims about the positive effects of changing from one economic/political system to another are always going to be contentious - politics is notoriously controversial. That is why I decided that it being unsourced was unacceptable. Some of the language also sounds a bit peacocky and not very neutral e.g. "Thanks to these changes, the economic transformation was enabled." If there is such agreement on what is said, then it shouldn't be hard to get a source for it. Neljack (talk) 11:14, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Uh, ok. Next time just use proper tags instead of removing valid material. {{fact}} template really helps, removing the entire paragraph doesn't. No hard feelings mate, just saying. //Halibutt 18:36, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

BLP continues to apply to the article. As such, removing contentious unsourced material is entirely proper. Neljack (talk) 21:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

As long as it is contentious. Which you agree you have no knowledge to judge. Why remove it then when you can tag it and let those who do do their job instead? Anyway, no need to quarrel over it, it's really no big deal here, it's just a friendly advice for the future. //Halibutt 18:34, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Maintenance tag

I've removed the silly orange maintenance tag. Editors should remember we are here to write an encyclopedia, not to decorate articles with warnings and flags. This is article has plenty of references. If anybody wants to challenge specific points, they can do so by making a comment here, or with tags, used sparingly and appropriately. Wikipedia does not require an inline citation on every sentence, or even inline citations at all. References may be listed at the end of the article. Jehochman ^Talk 12:01, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Jehochman, large swathes of the article are unreferenced. You say the references can be listed at the end of the article, but there is a grand total of one source listed in the bibliography. This lack of sufficient referencing is not acceptable on an BLP article, much less one that is on the Main Page. It should be pulled from ITN immediately, as several editors have agreed at ITN/C. And it is most inappropriate to edit war, rather than engaging in BRD, when I revert your edit. The fact you think the tag is silly does not licence you to do that. Neljack (talk) 15:54, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Jehochman has a point in that tagging the entire article or removing large chunks of text is not really helpful. Why not use {{fact}} tags the next time, apparently you read the article, so why not? //Halibutt 18:38, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Anon's comments

'first non-communist prime minister in Central and Eastern Europe after World War II.[1]'

Not so - Zdeněk Fierlinger (Czechoslovakian prime minister, 1945-48) Certainly no Communist at the time he was premier...

Indeed; Hungary had a few non-Communist prime ministers after the end of WWII: Zoltán Tildy, Ferenc Nagy, Lajos Dinnyés. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.66.169.157 (talk) 10:14, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Moving towards GA

This article is not that far from a GA status. Few more citations is all that needed; it seems comprehensive otherwise. Language - some copyediting will be needed, but nothing we cannot handle. I'd be happy to help out with some tweaks if others are interesting it pushing it to a GA. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:13, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

b-class review

Almost passing, needs just a few more inline cites, --Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

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