Talk:Talia al Ghul

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File:1408059talia al ghul 2.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Talia Head

I added the Citation Needed tag after the comment concerning the use of the name Talia Head. I could not verify this in any DC literature. Furthermore, Talia al-Ghul translates from Arabic as "The Next Ghoul." Thus, Talia's surname would be anglicized as "Ghoul" not "Head." (The Arabic word for head is Ra's, her father's name.) It may be possible that this was a mistranslation on part of some authors but like I said, I have not seen a reference to Talia using the surname Head in any official DC literature. Furthermore, if she has, it is most likely out of hommage to her father (not an anglicization of her name) since Talia Head would be the same as saying Talia Ra's. 76.178.95.99 (talk) 02:10, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Regarding "I could not verify this in any DC literature": The entire time she was running LexCorp while Lex Luthor was President of the United States, she used the name "Talia Head". That's multiple years worth of comics, around the late 1990s and early 2000s, in which she used that name. —Lowellian (reply) 19:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The 2005 edition of DC Comics' Batman Villains Secret Files and Origins lists Talia's "real name" as "Talia Head" in her and Nyssa Raatko's biography. It further states "..Talia eventually distanced herself from both men and, taking the English translation of her surname, 'Head', as her American last name, became CEO of LexCorp." She used the "Head" last name both in the Superman comics and Batman comics (such as Batman: Death and the Maidens). Easyjusteasy (talk) 06:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

That quote actually serves to make a case for her *real* name being Talia al Ghul, since it refers to Head as being an English translation of her name. Nobody denies that some stories have used Head as her surname, but I still think that al Ghul is more common and more accepted. Euchrid (talk) 21:24, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Image

I'm not sure if this is the best image for Talia, simply because I don't believe that it represets her character as it is usually depicted. She doesn't have a costume in the manner of most characters, but some sort of leather is pretty standard for her, and she usually looks more like a villain and less like a terrified girl. The point of the image is to show the most common form of the character, and I don't believe that this image does that. I don't have any particular image to suggest as a replacement, but if people feel the same way I'd be happy to try and track one down.Euchrid (talk) 01:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree. So I changed it to a modern Talia depiction such as from Batman & Son. Most people familiar with this century's version of the character or its recent popularization will expect something different than the previous image. Easyjusteasy (talk) 06:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Arkham City

The section on Arkham City is ridiculously oversized, listing literally everthing she does in the entire game gives undue weight to that portrayal of the character. I think that it should be trimmed back to a two or three sentence summary - any objections? Euchrid (talk) 03:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Move

Where was the discussion about the article move which just took place? Seems like a pretty drastic change to make without one. Euchrid (talk) 04:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

In addition, since this took me roughly five minutes to find, I'm sure that there are many more examples of her full name being given as Talia al Ghul: [1] Euchrid (talk) 04:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Some example of Talia al Ghul name used by DC Comics website : [2] [3] [4] [5] [6], so I change the name back to Talia al Ghul. - Idej Elixe (talk) 14:04, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

She is called Talia al Ghul in some individual comic panels and in video games such as Arkham City's character biography screen. I wouldn't say that it's used the far vast majority of the time in fiction, however. It is used a lot by third-party media about the character to immediately associate her with Ra's al Ghul, though. Easyjusteasy (talk) 06:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Talia al Ghul in other media

Yay or nay? Talia al Ghul in other media, such as Joker in other media and many other examples. Easyjusteasy (talk) 05:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• No. There is no need for a spin-off for a relatively minor character, esp. not since the current article is already excessive long and detailed, and has only a dozen and a half or so reliable secondary sources. Drmies (talk) 06:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Excessive detail etc.

First of all, this article is bloated with needless descriptions of plot--why they are needless I explained here, for instance. This is an article on a character and fluffing it with plot summary (of things that have articles already) is excessive: it makes for a bad article, Wikipedia is not a fan site. Second, I removed some all-too lengthy quotes; such quoting falls foul of the guidelines for fair use, see Wikipedia:Non-free content, esp. Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Text. In fact, the quotes that remain should be removed. But the more general point is that this article contains way too much material that does not describe the character with the help of reliable, secondary sources: tags for in-universe and fan site are actually quite appropriate. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 06:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

In terms of plot, this article wasn't different than just about every character article I've ever looked at on WP over the years, particularly video games, comics, and the like. Not sure why this one is on anyone's radar and is target du jour for mass deletion (I didn't write most of the plot in the other media section.) The brief quotes were put there by myself to show that sources are not being fabricated, an all too common occurrence when people do not quote things on WP. I have access to the published encyclopedias and books referenced in regard to the topic (including DC Comics published character bios), as well as comics to check every now and then that nonsense or misinformation wasn't being put in. TL;DR It would just have been nicer to tag the article. Easyjusteasy (talk) 09:10, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

TLDNR? One paragraph? And that paragraph a lot shorter than any of the ones I found in the article. It may be nicer to tag, but that's "nice" in the 14th-17th century use of the word. Editing is better than tagging. "Target du jour" is neither here nor there, and that other articles are likewise bloated is a reason to improve those other articles. If you have access to reliable information, add those references, sure--but please don't consider biography an occasion for plot summary. Hope that wasn't too long, Drmies (talk) 15:07, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Lexa Doig as Talia in Arrow.webp

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:22, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Main Description

Talia has not appeared in over 700 distinct comic book issues. Comic vine, while a very useful resource, lists foreign language reprints, collected editions, British publications, and more as separate "issues." Her first appearance alone is likely listed on comic vine 20 different times, based on how many times it's been collected and reprinted. 220.74.25.15 (talk) 11:00, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

New Main Image

1971 are you guys serious, like can you please give her a more recent main image like what Cordelia Van Allen (talk) 20:30, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

"One of the greatest films of all time"

Acynet I removed this comment, as it falls into WP:UNDUE territory - there was only a single comment by single critic to support this, and the critic himself states that the list is an unabashedly partial and self-serving result of one critic.

I see you've added another source, but have also been pretty insistent on keeping this section - edit warring with at least one other editor over trimming and removal. Can you clarify why you think it's so important - and also find some more sources to support your stance of "greatest film[s] of all time". for such a grandiose claim, you really need more than just the two sources. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

In fact, I've just been reading the section again, and I'm not sure that any of it is valid content. This is an article about Talia al Ghul - not the Dark Knight films. Whist it's fine to say that Cotillard's portrayal has been praised, there's no need to extrapolate that to then include accolades for the film. Chaheel Riens (talk) 11:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I posted this over a month ago with no comment from anybody - there is definite undue adulation towards the film that's out of place in an article about a character in the film. It's fine to say that the character was very well received, but to then go on and say that the film itself is considered one of the greatest of all time is out of place. Let's also not for comparison that neither the Bane (DC Comics) or Bane in other media (nor Alfred Pennyworth, Lucius Fox, Catwoman in other media,) articles make any mention of the GOAT for the film itself. Why is it pertinent to this specific article?

I'm aware of WP:BRD, but you had over a month to respond to the proposed changes, and it would have been more helpful to respond here after your reversion as well - even a more involved edit summary would have been appreciated. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

With regard to this reversion and the edit summary of until a decision has been made the page should remain as is - it's kind of hard to come to a consensus when nobody engages on the talk page... Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:14, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It's been two months, and no engagement as to why adulation for the film should be in this article, so removing it again. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:19, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

If there's been no discussion then that means no rationale for inclusion has been provided and it's reasonable to remove - you cannot simply ignore a request for engagement and then claim that no discussion equals argument to stay. It's clear that the IPV6 editor - which is obviously the same person with all three (so far) addresses geolocating to Austin, Texas) - has no real intention of discussing why the challenged material should stay and is just reverting without rhyme or reason. However, I'll give you one last chance.

Please offer a rationale as to why claims that "The Dark Knight Rises" is one of the GOAT is justified for inclusion. Note that I'm not disputing whether it is or isn't - but the necessity of inclusion in this particular article.

Please don't simply revert again, or I'll have to seek alternative solutions such as WP:THIRD etc. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe the claims are valid Cdawns (talk) 15:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Why? What is your rationale? This is an article about Talia al Ghul, not "The Dark Knight Rises". The same comment goes to Barrysed who reverted without reason. Given the level of discussion I've tried to get going, simply reverting without comment is disruptive. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Cdawns you have stated twice that you believe the claims are valid - but that is not the issue. It may well be that the claim (and sources) that The Dark Knight Rises has been called one of the greatest films of all time are valid and reliable sources, but the issue is that such a claim is not necessary or relevant to an article about Talia Al Ghul. I have stated the distinction twice above, and nobody has responded as to why the article on Talia Al Ghul is improved by including the statement that TDR is recognised as one of the greatest films of all time.

Please give your rationale as to why the info is relevant and improves the article. Remember - the challenge is not whether TDR is one of the Greatest of all time, but whether such a claim is relevant and improves this particular article. Please base your responses around that argument. Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry I'm late to the party. These "Greatest Ever" additions are almost certain to be from multiple sockpuppets of blocked user Jaszen. I've reverted them all. Barry Wom (talk) 12:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)