Talk:Tamara de Lempicka

Sexuality

I'm going to restore 'and was famous for her many liaisons with both men and women' which was shortened to just 'and was famous for her many liaisons' by an anonymous user (Who's IP has been a source of vandalism according to the talk page for it (though it is a shared one it points out)), whilst I don't usually think a persons sexuality is terribly relevant, (do we specifically comment the heterosexuality of every historical figure who is?) it does seem in the case of Tamara De Limpicka to be relevant to mention it, most of the biographical information about her makes mention of it, including that by her daughter, and that linked on the main article, and in the context of the different societal attitudes to sexuality of the day it does illustrate something of how she was perceived in her day, also many people have commented on how her sexuality influenced her work which I think makes it very relevant to at least mention. Number36 08:55, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I hope that the edit summary was sufficient this time, apologies for not including a note on my first edit, I was restoring information that had been deleted (without explanation) and posted on the discussion page but I forgot to include a reference to that in the edit summary, my bad, I do feel however that removing it in the first place is what required an explanation since it was cited from and discussed extensively in biographical information already linked on the page.Number36 20:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

moscow is a city not a country - she was born in poland which belonged to the russian empire in that time—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.95.75 (talk) 14:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 16:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Stage Play 'Tamara'

Should mention be made of the long-running Hollywood stage play 'Tamara', which was performed in the late 1980s? LorenzoB 19:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Birth place

Wasn't Tamara De Lempicka born in Poland and moved to Russia later? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.18.223.238 (talk) 19:38:25, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

Poland did not exist as a nation state in 1898. Warsaw was then part of the Russian Empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.67.183.45 (talk) 19:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Collectors

Madonna, Jack Nicholson and Barbara Streisand are known to be collectors of art? Aren't there other private collectors that would seem more notable? 84.48.214.224 (talk) 10:29, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Correction

Tamara Łempicka was born in Moscow or Warsaw in 1895 or 1898 Poland did not exist as a nation state in 1898. Warsaw was then part of the Russian Empire. It's true but exist small country- Polish Kingdom which king was russian tsar.(so if Lempicka was born in Warsaw, you'd say "she was born in Polish Kingdom". If she was born in Moscow, you'd say "she was born in Russian Empire". Her surname - Lempicka - is false because her true surname is Łempicka ( "Ł" you should read how "W" in Warsaw). --79.163.139.226 (talk) 18:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Early life

There is evidence that Lempicka created an exotic history for herself, but was actually from very humble beginnings, or so I have read in books of her work. There is also some dispute as to where she was born (some say Moscow). None of this is mentioned in the article. Johnny "ThunderPeel2001" Walker (talk) 11:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

broken links

some links have broken or expired, the page owner should fix, thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.18.19 (talk) 01:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

B-class review

For WP:POLAND: failed due to numerous unreferenced paragraphs. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I guess it should be mentioned that her surname is pronounced "Lempitska". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimbie95 (talk • contribs) 22:36, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Married a Russian lawyer

According to the page at present, she married in Russia but her husband's surname is Polish: Łempicka. This has bearing on the name's pronunciation (though she went by "de Lempicka" presumably since relocating to Paris), which I'm verifying for Wikidata as there's an inconsistency in its transcription into non-roman alphabet WPs. If her husband was ethnically Polish and not Russian, this detail needs to be clarified with its reference cited, and the text changed accordingly. -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:21, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

You raise some interesting points here. Having lived in St. Petersburg myself, I understand the complexity of separating ethic from national identity. To be on the safe side I've changed the text to simply say that her husband was a prominent lawyer, without going into whether he was Polish or Russian, or both. Cordially, SiefkinDR (talk) 15:02, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Her surname: style, pronunciation

For Tamara de Lempicka's surname, there's an inconsistency among Wikipedia versions' transcriptions into non-roman alphabets. Russian and Ukrainian follow the Polish pronunciation of the letter "c" as [t͡s] so that the "cki" is pronounced [t͡ski], while Hebrew, Arabic and Persian ignore this, with the letters "cki" pronounced as [k]. The following details aren't mentioned in the article and require clarification:

• At what point did she change the surname's style from "Łempicka" to "de Lempicka"?
• How did she pronounce her surname while in France, the USA, and Mexico?

What I seek for the latter is how she was known in the art world, whether or not according to Polish orthography (probably better known in France than in the USA or Mexico). -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:32, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

I came here looking for the pronunciation(s) of the name, but there is nothing. --Error (talk) 02:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Her divorce 1928 and marige 1934.

In the fact square, divorce year is stated as 1931 and marige year as 1933 while in the running article text other years are stated. Please make the article consistent, whatever is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hhaglund (talk • contribs) 06:46, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2018

• "Tamara de Lempicka", Official Webpage of the estate of Tamara de Lempicka (official web page). Helmut pichler (talk) 07:54, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. It is unclear what changes you want to be made to the article. Please provide specifics.--SkyGazer 512 ^{What will you say? / What did I do?} 13:47, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2018

official webpage of the estate of Tamara de Lempicka: www.delempicka.org Helmut pichler (talk) 07:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Citation / References

I apologize if this comment should have been placed elsewhere, but I couldn't find a accurate tag to mark the spot itself in the article.

There's a citation from "Noreen (2016), p. 93." under the subsection "Career." This is not a book that: 1) Is in the reference list, and 2) I can find anything about doing an online search.

I suspect the correct citation should be "Néret (2016), p. 93," but I don't have access to this book in order to check that this is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultramartin (talk • contribs) 16:31, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Birth name Maria?

The source cited for Maria as Lempicka's birth name—Commire, Anne, ed. (2002). "Lempicka, Tamara de (1898–1980)". Women in World History: A Biographical Encyclopedia. {{cite web}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)—actually says her birth name was Tamara. Several online sources give Maria Gorska as her birth name, but they are generally not first-rate sources. I checked three books (Néret 2000, Tamara de Lempicka: 1898-1980. Köln [etc.]: Taschen; Bade 2006, Tamara de Lempicka, New York: Parkstone Press; and Blondel, Brugger, and Gronberg 2004, Tamara de Lempicka: Art Deco Icon, London: Royal Academy of Arts) and they give her birth name as Tamara Gorska or Tamara Gurwik-Gorska. Grove Art Online and ULAN don't support Maria, although The Art of Feminism does. Are there other sources that could clarify the matter? I don't think Madonna Unstoppable is to be preferred over the biographies. Ewulp (talk) 12:13, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Before setting the final name your edits should be reverted for neutrality please. I am on the search to determine the birthname. I will start providing some sources. It is best to go with the name that is most cited by both books and websites and if any sources doubt that then that can be mentioned in the body of the article e.g. in the "Early life" section. Regards. Oliszydlowski, 13:16, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Just a quick checkup, I reviewed some of the published texts, including the biography of Tamara de Lempicka and it's highly possible that she was born "Tamara Maria Górska", Górska being the Polonized version of Gorska. Oliszydlowski, 13:27, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I've now checked six biographies and they all say her birth name was Tamara. Three acknowledged experts on the artist are Alain Blondel, Gioia Mori, and Laura Claridge; both Mori (Tamara de Lempicka the Queen of Modern, 2011) and Claridge (Tamara de Lempicka: A Life of Deco and Decadence, 1999) say she was born as Tamara Rosalia Gurwik-Gorska. All of her biographers agree that good documentation is lacking for her date and place of birth, and that Lempicka falsified her birth year and other details. On the basis of circumstantial evidence, Claridge believes that Lempicka was born in Moscow, probably about 1895. Mori agrees with Claridge that Lempicka may have been born born slightly earlier than the date (1898) usually accepted, but she and Blondel give Warsaw as the place of birth. Bade says there are reasons to believe Lempicka may have been born in Moscow but "the official version was that Tamara Gurwik-Gorska was born in 1898 in Warsaw". De Lempicka-Foxhall & Phillips (Passion by Design: The Art and Times of Tamara de Lempicka, 1987) say she was born as Tamara Gorska in Warsaw. Concerning her name, the best sources seem to be unanimous; I think we should relegate the alternate birthname "Maria" to a footnote. Ewulp (talk) 03:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Ewulp. Please gve her birth name as Tamara. SiefkinDR (talk)—Preceding undated comment added at 06:36, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Me too - but a note or comment about the alternative might bwe in order. Johnbod (talk) 15:24, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

According to Oliszydlowski, I have not sufficiently discussed my edits, so here's more. The edit he is calling the "neutral" version cites three sources for Tamara Maria Gorska as Lempicka's birth name: Madonna: Unstoppable!, I Know an Artist: The inspiring connections between the world's greatest artists, and 50 Women Artists You Should Know. The first of these—which does not seem to be an especially scholarly book, and is not listed in Worldcat but apparently exists—does not support the assertion that Lempicka's birth name was Tamara Maria Gorska; it says her birth name was Maria Gorska (here). I removed this on the grounds that the source does not support the claim. The second book cited also does not support what is claimed, which is why I removed that one. The one and only source that has been provided that actually says that the artist's birth name was Tamara Maria Gorska is 50 Women Artists You Should Know. I think it's proper to remove that as an anomaly; I couldn't find a second source anywhere that supports "Maria" as a middle name. Oliszydlowski has reverted my edit; it would be helpful if he would discuss here his reasons for preferring these sources to the comprehensive biographies of the artist written by acknowledged experts on Lempicka. So far, all we have is his edit summary: "Rosalia in Polish is Rozalia. Mistake". I believe we should follow sources, and "Rosalia" is what the best available sources say. (According to Claridge, the few existing documents from Lempicka's childhood are written in Cyrillic; this is one of the reasons she thinks the artist was born in Moscow. Possibly "Rosalia" is a transliteration, although Mori—who says Lempicka was born in Warsaw—uses the same spelling.)

A question for Oliszydlowski: do you believe that Lempicka's father was named Boris Gurwik-Górski as our article says? If so, what would Tamara's surname have been? Ewulp (talk) 21:35, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

A question for you, there is no such name as Rosalia only Rozalia and if she was born in Warsaw it would have been Tamara Rozalia Gurwik-Górska. Are there any more reliable sources supporting stating that her name was Tamara Rosalia? Oliszydlowski, 14:01, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Here's a third: [1]. That makes three reliable sources. If they spell it Rosalia, Wikipedia has to spell it that way too. FWIW there's also this and this and this and this. Ewulp (talk) 05:15, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

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I am suspicious of the statement that her mother was Jewish

some sources say she was, others say she was Catholic - surely there must be a way to know for sure? 94.197.148.214 (talk) 15:30, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox : Movement

Hello, TDL is a painter. "Art déco" is a design movement and cannot be applyed to a painter. Painters have their own categories of movements. That's why I removed it. While waiting for your movement proposal, Merangs, it is better not to write anything in the infobox. Lekselle (talk) 07:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lekselle, thank you for taking this to talk. I am not an expert in art or any concepts related to it but please see Section 8 "Painting" of the Art Deco article. Tamara is mentioned there, with a source. Her style has been called as "Art Deco". Merangs (talk) 14:10, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I saw it written elsewhere too. I am not a specialist of the period neither. But in the page Art déco, they say: "Art deco painting was by definition decorative, designed to decorate a room or work of architecture"; such an activity is not mentioned in the page TDL. If you agree, Merangs, we could wait for other sourced opinions? Lekselle (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The title of a major exhibition of Lempicka's work organized in 2004 by the Royal Academy of Arts, London and the Kunstforum Wien was Tamara de Lempicka: Art Deco Icon. In the catalogue's Foreword, the curators Dr. Ingried Brugger and Professor Phillip King CBE write: "De Lempicka is generally identified as the embodiment of the Art Deco style of Paris in the 1920s". Elsewhere in the catalogue (p. 39), Brugger writes: "Art Deco influenced the look of a whole epoch, from works of art down to the simplest everyday objects. Like certain works by the American Georgia O'Keefe, De Lempicka's paintings played a part in creating the style of that time. Yet they are much more than merely a direct translation into painting of an innovative decorative style." In Tamara de Lempicka (Taschen, 2000. p. 11), Gilles Néret describes her as "this star of Art Deco painting". In Tamara de Lempicka (Parkstone, 2006, p. 22), Patrick Bade writes: "Diaghilev's designers, notably Leon Bakst, played a vital role in developing the Art Deco style with which de Lempicka became associated." Also notice here that a painting by de Lempicka adorns the cover of a book titled Art Deco Painting. Ewulp (talk) 01:34, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Ewulp. That's enough to convince me, Merangs 🙂️. Lekselle (talk) 10:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

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