Talk:Tamil cuisine

• I am merging Cuisine of Chennai into this page if any one has suggestions please contribute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.252.25.185 (talk) 18:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
• just trying to contribute whatever I can do. Please feel free to make changes and rearrangements/introducing fresh texts, etc. as may be required. My exposure to Tamil cuisine is an external one - I have remained on a touring job in 4 states of South India for 4 years. I suggest someone more familiar with the matter should contribute. I shall continue for few more days.--Bhadani 02:49, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks a lot for your good work. I'll try to find some more references and enhance this. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 04:00, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
    • No thanks at all, it is my privilege - after all I have survived on Tamil cuisine for four years from July 1999 until May 2003, away from home. I still do enjoy Tamil food with family in "that famous chain of restaurants" dotting different parts of Chennai. Some one should suggest a different word for section Specialities. Further edits / reedits are requested. Thanks.--Bhadani 18:43, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Other stuff

This looks really good. On two levels, as, alas, there is no Tamil food where I am. Madhur Jaffrey has some interesting things to say about Tamil cuisine, such as its predominant influence on Malaysian cuisine, and Tamil temple lunches - for their specialties, and as default cooking schools for chefs who move on to restaurants. Also, I found some interesting history in Achaya's book. I don't want to start adding things to Bhadani's work because I am so not even close to an expert (just an enthusiast), so shall I dump the stuff here? --Mothperson 13:30, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• • Most welcome, please "dump" here, I will "consume" everything - every bit of information will be reflected in the article. Thanks. You are welcome to edit yourself - plz do that for sure.--Bhadani 18:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, as much as I adore Yamuna Devi, I'm not sure it's appropriate to stress the award win in the body of the article, if only because most people will assume she's Indian, when she is/was Joan Campanella from California. Move to references? --Mothperson 13:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• • Actually I am sure too many cooks shall not spoil the "cuisine" (lol) - creating this article should be like a picnic. Everyone should do a little bit of editing, so that we can share a big bowl !--Bhadani 17:55, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I was partly trying to avoid having to read about things I can't have for dinner. But I can probably manage not to drool on the keyboard. I think what I'll do is add stuff I feel comfortable with (like the Malaysian reference, and maybe some history) and put the other stuff (like maybe the temples?) here for you to consider. Picnic! Love your analogy. Pass me a dosa, please? --Mothperson 19:46, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Can you tell me what the grain rāgi is?

This and this say it is called finger millet, though I think the Tamil equivalent is képpai. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 06:58, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Protein

I don't think it is correct to say that the vegetarian South Indian diet is a "rich source of" proteins, in fact it is quite the opposite, compared to other diets which include large quantities of dairy, eggs and meat. Rice has half the protein content as wheat (7-8% vs. 15% by calories). The two decent sources of protein in the vegetarian South Indian diet, lentils and yoghurt, are both diluted with water (sambhar and mooru respectively). And vegetables have a lot less protein than most Tamils seem to assume. Arvindn 08:32, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Good call. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

My recollection was that adults on average consumed 400-500 grams of uncooked rice plus 200-250 grams of uncooked legumes per day. This provides much more than the RDA for protein, about 50 grams for adults. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.249.25 (talk) 07:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

According to the Indian Government's Standard Reference System baseline survey of 2014 only 2.35% of people in Tamil Nadu over the age of 15 state that they are vegetarian.

So yes the article is badly skewed towards vegetarianism and is therefore very much out of date. In fact most South Indians are not vegetarian, and it's not till you get to Northern states such as Gujarat or Rajastan that you begin to see substantial numbers of vegetarians. MichaelGG (talk) 03:01, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

References

Seafood?

I am worried that this article places too much emphasis on the vegetarian aspect of Tamil cuisine. In India as a whole, about 20% of the population is vegetarian; even though it is quite likely that the percentage is higher in Tamil Nadu, it is still definitely a minority. Perhaps there is a selection bias, with an unrepresentatively high proportion of Tamil wikipedians being vegetarian? Anyways, I think fish in particular is an important part of Tamil cuisine, karuvaadu or meen kozhambu being as much of a signature item as idli or dosa. I am unfortunately not sufficiently knowledgeable to make any changes myself, as I too am a vegetarian. Arvindn 19:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I feel that the percentage of vegetarians in Tamil Nadu (a maximum of 25%) would be lower than the rest of the country. Perhaps, you're from Chennai to have gotten this impression ;) Or my perception may be because, I come from Madurai. However, you've just committed a major sin by reminding me of my favourite dish, karuvaadu. You don't know the consequences. :-) Let me try to balance the selection bias; bear with the stench. ;) -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 08:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Excellent! I'm curious to know what is the percentage of Tamil vegetarians anyway; googling turned up no numbers, but some random webpage that claimed Tamil Nadu had the maximum precentage of vegetarians and Karnataka the second highest. But then, there was another page that claimed Gujarat had the highest. Although it is unlikely that it is highest in Tamil Nadu, I feel it is definitely higher than the national average, because of the existence of states like West Bengal where, for all practical purposes, everyone eats fish. Arvindn 09:42, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The Bengali argument sounds plausible. I do not know the national average. However, a crude caste-based deduction (sorry for this) based on the forward communities and the backward communities would give a (not a tight) lower bound of 7% per this. In my experience, the percentage varies sharply with different samples. In our apartment shared by 6 of us, four are vegetarians (including one recent convert out of choice), and the other two include my brother and me. The Tamils among my postgraduate batch had a "disproportionate" (to the general population percentage) number of Brahmins (and also the number of Chennaiites) and hence, the percentage would run into nearly 70% Whereas, my undergraduate class (which had people from all over Tamil Nadu, but more from the south) had around 70% non-vegetarians. In my village school, the percentage was more like 90% non-vegetarians. The web, however, projects a very different story. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:13, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Kari

The meaning of the Tamil word kari in the article is completely incorrect, even though it cites a book. The correct etymology is burnt/blackened, and refers to the way meat/vegetables were grilled in ancient times. The current meaning of the word is roughly "stir fried". I have posted a detailed etymology here, but that's the gist. Since I can find no reference, as explained therein, this would constitute original research, but if there is consensus I think the article (as well as curry) can be updated. Thoughts? Arvindn 19:45, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Arvind, I'm afraid you're wrong here. கரி is different from கறி. We use the former to mean burnt stuff, more specifically burnt charcoal. The latter is used to refer to meat primarily, but by extension, would mean vegetables if we add the qualifier காய். Interesting point that you raised though. Perhaps the two are related. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 08:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

In that case, how would you explain that kaikari is thought to be a corruption of kaikani, and that many vegetable vendors are apparently reverting to the latter term? Plus, spellings are not immutable. Anyway check this page. It doesn't have Tamil spellings, but AFAICT, it gives the root of the word *kar_-i (meaning = vegetables, curry) as "*kar_-" (by clicking on the finger icon). The root "*kar_-" has two entries, one meaning black and the other meaning anger, enmity. I think we can safely say that kari more likely comes from black than anger :) Thirdly, if kari didn't come from black it would be an enormous coincidence, because the old way of cooking them did result in partial blackening. Arvindn 09:13, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Intersting. I found this from the link given by you. This was the sixth entry in the page you'd given link for. I don't know how to "read" the page cited by you. What is the relationship betwen the words in the link cited by you - alphabetic neighbours or etymologically relatives? -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 09:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The entry for "*kar_-i" has a link called "Dravidian etymology". Clicking it takes you to "*kar_-". Which most probably means that "*kar_-" is the root of "*kar_-i", the way I see it. One more point for your consideration: I think kaikari is usually applied to fresh vegetables rather than cooked, which would support its derivation via kaikani rather than via kari. In any case, the etymology in the article appears highly dubious - if there is one unifying property of kari's, regardless of the etymology, it would probably be that they are all dry preparations, whereas sauces are almost always liquid. Arvindn 09:37, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

On clicking the etymology link, it takes me here which shows the meaning as "vegetables". Aren't we on the same page? In any case, I agree with your last line and the dubiousness of the current etymo in the article. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:14, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree it is a little confusing. My interpretation is that "*kar_-" meaning vegetables is not a separate word root, because it is not listed on the main page; instead one of the words listed under "*kar_-" (which are black and anger) must be the root from which "*kar_-"=vegetables is derived. Arvindn 10:19, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Got your point now. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:22, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Tamil Words in English

Can't speak much about most of this article, not being Tamil, but I wanted to ask how certain the author was that the origins of both "orange" and "mango" were from Tamil. Malayalam has the same words so it is possible that these words came into the English through contact with Malayalees as well. Just wanted to throw that out there because I thought the tone of the etymology of these two words was very definitive when there is actually some doubt as to which language these words came from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam_language#Evolution states the evolution of the Malayalam Language and it is quite clear that Malayalam and Tamil have common roots and Malayalam split from Tamil at a much later stage. So, it would be good to reason that the word 'Mango' was derived from the common Tamil ancestor. Vikram 1982 18:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)Vikkki

I don't think mulligatawny derives from Milagu Thanneer but rather from Malligai Thanner - makes more sense to me both phonetically and content-wise. Malligai or Malli or Koththu Malli is a name for coriander (dhania) in Tamil and is widely used in Sambar powder and in many soups. While pepper is also a common ingredient, Milagu --> Mulliga seems far fetched. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.130.30 (talk) 21:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

"Virundhu Saapadu"???

"Virundhu Saapadu" doesnt make sense. Though it might be used in day-to-day talk, the term Virundhu would by itself state a good full course meal and hence the word Saapadu is redundant. Vikram 1982 18:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)Vikkki

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 20:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Oldest vegetarian culinary heritage?

"Tamil cuisine (தமிழ் உணவு) is one of the oldest vegetarian culinary heritages in the world.[1]"

This line cites a page that simply repeats the claim without providing any detail. Is there some way to substantiate the claim, maybe by comparing it with other known old vegetarian traditions? Otherwise it's simply an unspported claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.67.193 (talk) 06:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Popular Sri Lankan Taimil Dishes - included in the article

• Puttu - rice cake
• Appam
• Kottu

Sri Lankan Tamils rarly eat Idly and Dosa, and more frequently eat Puttu and Idiyapam. Also, Kottu Roti is highly popular as a take out amonge immigrant populations in Canada, and Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.68.198 (talk) 03:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

What a pity pictures are not on Commons!

A great pity these pictures are not on Commons, as it prevents one in practice to illustrates Tamil cuisine in other Wikipedia/other languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

They can be copied over. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

"Meals and their traditional meanings" needs serious attention!

This section is written in first person and includes what appears to be discussion. There is some reference to it being a transcript, if so the original should be sited and the content rewritten. I know nothing about this topic, so am not qualified to make the large changes needed. Segal'sLaw (talk) 17:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Reflist

Does anyone know why the reflist produces 4 entries, when there are only 3 notes in the text? Where does the fourth one come from and how can we delete it?

Lawsonstu (talk) 12:13, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Copy edit

I have made a comprehensive copy edit and removed some unsourced content such as traditional dishes. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 13:00, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Chippi appam into Tamil cuisine

One line unreferenced article. No reliable sources to be found. It should be merged into the main article until reliable sources can be added. Spudlace (talk) 22:48, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 10:47, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Regional cuisine

Aside from this section being entirely unsourced, the phrase 'each area where Tamils have lived' is extremely vague and the list of regions possibly contentious (I suggest eliminating the sentence or being more specific about the population referenced). If the objective was to describe regional variations solely within the state of Tamil Nadu, please mention that in the title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiscoLuvrr321 (talk • contribs) 05:11, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Cuisine

Talk about tamil nadu food cuisine 115.97.21.216 (talk) 08:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Other Tamils

The title of the Article is "Tamil cuisine", so it should cover Tamil cuisine everywhere - including the cuisines of the Tamils around Jaffna and the Tamil Diaspora. The Article is in the Indian cuisine category. Either the content should be increased to fit the title, or the title should be adjusted to match the content.

• 2 Regional cuisine
  • 2.1 Chola Nadu
  • 2.2 Pandiya Nadu
  • 2.3 Kongu Nadu
  • 2.4 Tondaimandalam

Do those regions include the Northern Province of Sri Lanka and thereabouts? 94.30.84.71 (talk) 21:08, 6 October 2022 (UTC)