Talk:Tandoori chicken

Disputable Claim

This dish originated in Pakistani city Peshawar, like many other tasty meat dishes. I always knew that :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kohestani9 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Definitely agree that the Gujral proprietary claim is highly dubious and unsubstantiated. Tandoor is not a dedicated "bread oven"; impoverished families in semi-arid conditions would not relegate a major investment to simply making bread. Tandoori murgh is highly analagous to the traditional Farsi-Pashto dish of Jujeh Kebob.

I don't get the difference between chicken tikka and chicken tandoori. � Gulliver 10:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Chicken tikka is usually smaller bits of marinated skewered chicken done on a bbq, like brochette/souvlaki/etc. It can be served with or without the skewer. Tandoori chicken uses larger pieces (legs/breasts) or more often, the entire bird; and is cooked in a "tandoor" which is a large clay oven. Most restaurants save time by using the same marinade for both dishes. --LuciferBlack 23:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The photo is definitely not a typical Chicken Tikka serving style. Noone serves rice with it. It is eaten only with chutney and onions. Mihirsaxena 14:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

"Noone serves rice with it". Unfortunately, this isn't true: people do. That doesn't make it right or traditional, of course (I thought the accompaniment should be naan). But I'm seriously concerned about the authenticity of the claims made here. My understanding is that Northern Indian food, particularly of Moghul background, is not very hot, and the ingredients mentioned here are not very typical. In particular:

• Unless I'm very mistaken, turmeric does not occur in the Moghul cuisine. It's used nowadays as a substitute for the much more expensive saffron, which tastes completely different.
• The recipe mentions garam masala, which doesn't sound right for a marinade. In my experience, garam masala is used shortly before serving, and the important thing about it is the fresh aroma.
• The way the recipe reads, you'd think that it's saying that garam masala consists of garlic, ginger, cumin and cayenne pepper.

So, can anybody come up with some good references? Groogle 07:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The "heat" of Moghul food varies between establishments. Much to my dismay, turmeric is pretty much de facto in contemporary Indian cuisine. Twenty years of eating Tandoori around the world, and I've yet to come across saffron-flavored Tandoori, because, as you pointed out, it's too expensive an ingredient for mass application. Also, I'd doubt its ability to stand up to 400 degrees without deteriorating. Can you provide examples of saffron used for this purpose? I actually prefer using garam masala in the early stages of cooking; its effect is toned down in the final dish, which can then be better accentuated with fresher aromatics like lemon, mint, etc. Garam masala, like most other spices can be used at any stage of cooking, depending on the cook's desired outcome. Lastly, there are as many "authentic" recepies for garam masala as there are manufacturers, so good luck finding an ironclad list of ingredients without ginger/garlic/etc. --LuciferBlack 03:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of temperature, could someone clarify whether the "480 degrees" of a tandoori oven is C or F? BTW, it certainly is served with rice in a British "Indian" context. Could Madhur Jaffrey be a suitable reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.34.187.34 (talk) 12:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Claiming popular dishes

It seems that now the meat dishes are becoming popular in India and the Indians have started to claim every fusion meat dish which were created in mostly Muslim kitchens during the Mughal Empire era. Zaman.hamad (talk) 01:22, 17 January 2016 (UTC) CU blocked sock of User:WikiBulova (see; [1])

And Mughals were rulers of which region? Don't remove sourced content. You have to provide reliable source for your each claim. Thank you. --Human3015 ^{It will rain}  04:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Read this article published in Pakistan's Dawn newspaper. Even they are saying that modern Tandoori Chicken is brainchild of Kundan. Mughal does had "Tandoor cooked chicken" but it was not today's "Tandoori Chicken". There is difference between "Chicken cooked in Tandoor" and "Tandoori Chicken". As per that Dawn article Tandoor cooked chicken exists since Indus Valley Civilization. But this article is about modern dish Tandoori Chicken. Still, current history section does refers Mughals. And just to clear you, Mughals were rulers of India, so USA or Argentina will not claim their legacy, it is India who will claim. --Human3015 ^{It will rain}  04:51, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Creation in Peshawar

To all people making edits like crazy, it seems obvious that it was created in Peshawar based on the website of the restaurant. http://motimahal.in/about-us/

"Kundan Lal Gujral was born in the first decade of the twentieth century in Chakwal, Undivided Punjab (now in Pakistan). Having lost his father at the tender age of ten, he started looking for avenues to support the family. Kundan Lal was the first in Peshawar to dig a tandoor right in the middle of the eatery. Since then, Peshawar was introduced to the culinary art of Tandoori chicken by Legendary Kundan Lal. This was a grand success. Soon Kundan was in demand for Tandoori delicacy at social gathering and wedding feasts where he would use an improvised tandoor.

However, 1947 brought the tragedy of partition, forcing among others Kundan to flee to India. Uncertainty faced him as he had neither money nor resources to start afresh in life. Kundan dropped off in Delhi to try his luck. Roaming the streets, he chanced upon an abandoned Thara in Daryaganj, and then considered a newer part of old Delhi. Some inner voice told him this was the spot, which would not only rehabilitate him but also, who knows, the Dilli wallas would see merit in his Tandoori chicken."

This is directly from the website, all Indian vandal IP's understand that you might be banned if you keep up the flame war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.74.230.80 (talk) 04:25, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Stop adding Pakistan, there was no Pakistan before 1947, it was British India. Gujral was born in British India not some Pakistan. Also, he was a Punjabi Hindu, stop removing his ethnicity and religion. 169.149.129.221 (talk) 09:45, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I have semi-protected the article for 24 hours to prevent you over-riding each other. Play nice. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:45, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Peshawar

I have reverted the article to a neutral state. There is no doubt that, according to the sources

• The dish was invented in Peshawar
• Peshawar at the time was in pre-partition India
• The restaurant location is now in Pakistan
• The dish is popular in both countries, and has been introduced to the rest of the world by restaurants run by people from both countries

The addition of fake sources to make it appear that the dish was invented in Daryaganj is completely unacceptable, and restoration of such content will result in the article being re-protected and/or those editors being blocked. Black Kite (talk) 12:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Agree, there was no Pakistan before 1947 and Kundan was a Punjabi Hindu, some Pak trolls were trying to push their POV on the page. 106.67.52.106 (talk) 05:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.67.46.222 (talk)

Thanks for the changes, was annoying seeing vandal IP's from India trying to ignore history to suit their beliefs. 73.74.230.80 (talk) 03:39, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd push for the region to be set to Peshawar, British India in the infobox, otherwise it's redundant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.72.75.113 (talk) 19:38, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

How is it "redundant", stop pushing your POV and stop vandalising the page. 106.67.48.221 (talk) 06:56, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Because it states it is the in British India of the Indian Subcontinent vs the clearer Peshawar of British India. Your IP shows as from Uttar Pradesh India, I'm American. Stop this India vs Pakistan war. 96.72.75.113 (talk) 17:27, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

The inventor of the dish was a Punjabi, who settled in Delhi. Peshawar is neither in Punjab nor near Delhi. Gujral being in Peshawar was incidental, also other sources say it might have been invented in Delhi, you can't add a confusing detail in the infobox. The origin para clearly elaborates its origin, no need to add a misleading info in the infobox. Discuss on talk page before engaging in edit wars. Badri2017 (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Almost all sources state that he was born in Punjab of modern Pakistan, then moved to Peshawar where he opened the restaurant and served the dish. His own restaurant in Delhi states as much on their official site. There is no valid source that states it was created in Delhi, as Black Kite has stated. It is not misleading info, but clearer info. The only ones trying to keep the infobox as British India are those who want to hide its creation in Peshawar. Go check the site: http://motimahal.in/about-us/ . As this is AGREED UPON, I request the box change to Peshawar, it was definitely not created in Delhi. I request Black Kite (talk) make the changes. Hman101 (talk) 18:33, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

I made the changes that reflect the true origin of the dish. It does not state Pakistan in the origin box; but Peshawar, which is NPOV. Peshawar is an old city that existed in British India and is the undisputed source of the dish. Please bring evidence to the contrary before editing. Hman101 (talk) 18:44, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

You can't make changes when a discussion is on, this is edit warring, build a consensus here first by inviting other contributors. Stop pushing your POV. Badri2017 (talk) 18:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

BTW, you are filling in wrong particular, 'region' is suppose to indicate the wider region where the dish is consumed regularly, not a country or city. The 'country' is British India and the 'region' is the Indian subcontinent. Badri2017 (talk) 19:13, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

@Black Kite: Request you to be a part of the discussion here. Badri2017 (talk) 18:53, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

• The "region" parameter is set to be "Region or state the dish was developed". The argument is whether "region" should be as narrow as Peshawar, or as wide as the country. Unfortunately in this case, "country" is difficult for obvious reasons. My thoughts are that this should be "Peshawar", as "Indian subcontinent" is too vague. Otherwise the parameter doesn't agree with the text. Black Kite (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree, there is no POV coming into play with setting Peshawar, it is simply the city it was developed in, and an old one at that which predates Pakistan. Hman101 (talk) 01:14, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Considering this as resolved, 2 for and 1 against, it doesn't seem there is any more input to take. Hman101 (talk) 22:39, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Resolved

History

Hello there!

Please stop deleting sourced material, you seemed to have biased POV in this subject. I have looked at the talkpage and it lends no credence to your claim that I misused the book. Secondly, please start a new discussion on the talk page of tandoori chicken as to why you want to remove sourced material (which is also mentioned by other sources in the article) insteaf of deleting it.

The Gujral claim altogether is weak. The fact only Indian newspapers, which are known for their discrepancies are cited does not help his claim. Secondly, most of them also mention this is Moti Mahal's claim directly or indirectly.The only reason I am not deleting Gujral claim altogether or starting a talk page discussion yet for his claim is that, he has not been valled out clearly by any source.

Tandoori chicken as sourced has been present in the Punjab region for centuries. However, it was not a delicacy, but simply the way people cook meat. Even if you believe Gujral to be the revolutionary inventor it is important mention the rudimentary beginings of the dish.

--Good Day, Nawabmalhi (talk) 19:42, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

I have copied above message that was originally left on my talk page.[2] You are really not bringing any "sourced material" you are only misrepresenting sources given your dislike for India. I know you want to discredit anything that is "Indian" here, given your senseless explanations, despite lacking the ability to judge what source says. None of your sources[3][4] support your claims about history. Raymond3023 (talk) 03:54, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

@Raymond3023...Well lets examine all the sources:

• #6 (IndiaMarks): says originates in Punjab region since Mughal era. Stories related to its creation have arisen like Gujral's.
• [| #11 (Dawn News)]: says tandoori chicken and lamb have existed atleast since Jahangir's time and modern recipe may be attributed Gujral.
• #12 (Rude Food): says tandoori chicken present for centuries (albeit not from Afghanistan) while other tandoori cooking older. Gujral popularized it in India.
• Apart these 3 sources the Food52 reference which you have not yet belligerently deleted also says Tandoori chicken has existed since the 16th century.

So there you have it, happy? I have not misrepresented sources; you just deleted references and referenced material. Also, it is disturbing and offensive that you think that I am anti-Indian simply for adding referenced material as this has nothing to do with India or Pakistan. It is not suprising you have been banned before. Even after so many edits you still do not seem have a grasp of basic Wiki ettiquetes such as starting a discussion before removing referenced content and not reverting 3 times.

--This should clear things up Nawabmalhi (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

"tandoori chicken present for centuries" doesn't means Mughal period. Dawn's source also reads "Tandoori cooking originated in ancient Harappa and Moenjodaro; it is also widely believed that tandoors, dating back almost 2500 years, were unearthed in Rajesthan, India." Would you add it? Article should not distract from its actual subject which is Tandoori chicken, not its predecessors. Raymond3023 (talk) 04:46, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

No. Like I said earlier, I would add anything that talks about origins of Tandoori chicken specifically like mentioned by the links. This is not a distraction but the subject of the article. Any information linked to the tandoor can be seen on the tandoor page. Your retort does not make any sense.--Nawabmalhi (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Are you actually going to date the origins of Tandoori Chicken to Indus Valley Civilisation or 500 years ago in Rajasthan? Raymond3023 (talk) 18:29, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

That is the origin of tandoor. We are talking about tandoori chicken which is only a few centuries old as confirmed by all the sources above.--Nawabmalhi (talk) 18:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

YouTube

I have removed the youtube reference several times but it has since been readded a third time by @Choosetocount:. I'm not sure why this is being added so I am seeking clarification as it appears to have little encyclopedic value and violates Wikipedia:Video_links#References, per "If the material in a video only available on YouTube includes content not previously produced or discussed in other reliable sources, then that material may be undue and inappropriate for Wikipedia.". Choosetocount could you please explain further? Thanks! CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

[5][6][7] see page 6. Many reliable sources are stating Tandoor being originated in IVC. My Lord (talk) 16:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

My Lord I'm not debating that - I'm contesting the addition of a random youtube video. The work you're citing is preferential to YT. CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 16:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree that random videos are not a reliable sources. Issue seems resolved now. My Lord (talk) 17:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Except the YT video is still there. CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 17:15, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Removed. My Lord (talk) 17:55, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

The intention of retaining the video was to have a reliable source. The video is of the archaeologist himself who led the research. Why doubt his words on a video but trust them when quoted in a newspaper?! Further, visual media makes a stronger and long lasting impression on any reader's mind than a newspaper clip. I strongly feel the YT video should be added to the good sources subsequently added by My Lord. Thanks. Choosetocount (talk) 22:36, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

YouTube and similar sites do not have editorial oversight engaged in scrutinizing content so editors need to watch out for the potential unreliability of the user uploading the video. There are channels for videos uploaded by agencies and organizations generally considered reliable such as that of the Associated Press on YouTube. My Lord (talk) 04:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Duplicate image

This exact same dish is being presented as both tandoori chicken and chicken tikka. Which one is it? JIP | Talk 16:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect grammar in “preparation”

Change “is” to “are” or rephrase plurality of raw “chickens” 180.131.213.139 (talk) 13:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 January 2023

The current infobox uses a incorrect parameter name. I suggest changing the line

| cuisine          = [[Punjabi cuisine|Punjabi]], [[Pakistani cuisine|Pakistani]] [[Indian cuisine|Indian]]

to

| associated_cuisine = [[Punjabi cuisine|Punjabi]], [[Pakistani cuisine|Pakistani]] [[Indian cuisine|Indian]]

RudolfSchreier (talk) 07:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

 Already done – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:10, 12 January 2023 (UTC)