Talk:Tangled Up in Blue

Meaning of Tangled Up In Blue

What is the literal meaning of this song's title? Is he talking about being weighed down (Tangled up) by sadness (the blues, or feeling blue)? Vorenus 17:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Not being an expert in interpreting poetry or songwriting styles etc, here's my take:

I understand the concept of writing outside the framework of time, and the fact that both cars, and slaves are mentioned, seeming to imply different historical time frames.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that these reflect real events in Dylan's life, and that he was thinking of a specific incident for each verse. Perhaps it's a collage of a single person, or period in his life. HE knows what he was thinking for each verse, and I bet it was a real event.

I personally don't see the reference to "slaves" as being necessarily literal. It could just as easily be some guy he knew starting to pimp his druggie girlfriends, who knows?

I think Bob likes to tell the story of the world the way it is, but from his own perspective and without too much explanation. He wants to impart the feelings and leave you to figure out the facts.

Anyone who hears this song will get the sense of youth turning to maturity, losing friends in good and bad ways, and never really understanding what happened. It's true we all just "keep on keepin on, like a bird that flew". That's life and he communicated it beautifully. I don't think it has squat to do with slavery or history or anything. It's just a collage of his life's experiences. "slaves" is just his term for something that struck him like slavery.

I wish he would read this, and tell us all what he was thinking when he wrote it.

Slaves

I think the line about

the beginning of the song mentions a cross-country car trip, but towards the end a minor character gets involved in "dealing with slaves" in New York; clearly the two cannot be happening in the same time period.

is far too literal. There's nothing to indicate that "dealing with slaves" is anything but metaphorical. Rewrite? Signinstranger 20:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree - this sounds like original research. "slaves" could either be metaphorical or just mean sweatshop workers in NY, or something like that. It's hard to know. --Chinawhitecotton 14:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Connection to Joni Mitchell's Blue album?

I just read as a piece of trivia that Mitchell's Blue inspired this song. Anyone ever heard this before and know if it is verifiable?--Chinawhitecotton 14:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Only via second-hand references. Ron Rosenbaum describes in a couple of places Slate and New York Observer that Dylan told him that during an interview published in the March 1978 issue of Playboy. However he reports that he was unable to verify it because he misplaced the original transcripts and the only copy he could obtain for that issue had missing pages from the interview. older ≠ wiser 14:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Lyrics

I've modified the simple phrase 'a love affair that has ended' to more nearly reflect the lyrics. The whole point surely is that, even though they're separated again, the bond between them has NOT ended! Bob aka Linuxlad (talk) 09:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

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Rock Band 2

The tracklist for Rock Band 2 has been announced, and Tangled Up in Blue is on it. Shouldn't this be in the article? Yeah, I know, I was surprised too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.231.204 (talk) 01:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

an Italian poet From the thirteenth century

Do any editors have any sources about who the "Italian poet From the thirteenth century" was? Just curious. SageGreenRider (talk) 01:34, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a vague ref to Dante? http://www.expectingrain.com/dok/who/i/italianpoet.html SageGreenRider (talk) 02:00, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Unverified info

I was unable to verify the following - please restore to the article if reliable sources can be found. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

• Science fiction author Joan D. Vinge published Tangled Up in Blue in 2000 as the fourth book in her Hugo Award-winning "Snow Queen" series. (Needs verification that this book title is related to the song)

References

Official album releases

To give some feedback on this section, I would like to comment that the refs should be centered and the take col should be retitled to Take/version so the Bloods on the Tracks version can be added to that. Once you have added the version under that col for appropriate albums, make sure that only goes in the col and does not span all the way across like it currently is, also use multiple rowspan where necessary. My pleasure to deliver comments. --K. Peake 12:59, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi K. Peake, if you have time could you help out with some general feedback on the current state of the article now I've done a bit more work? I'd like to get it to a state where it can be nominated as a good article, so if you could give me some pointers I'd appreciate it. Thanks and regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:36, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose Sorry for the late response; I was offline mostly yesterday but here we go. The paragraphs in critical reception are too short, you should give mention as the last live performance as well as the first, should separate the sub-sections of credits and personnel with sub-headings instead of sub-sections and update charts to being in the commonly used format for Wiki. --K. Peake 08:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

K. Peake Thanks! I appreciate your advice. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:41, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tangled Up in Blue/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 19:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

My favourite Dylan song (and that's saying something). Can't pass this one up - review coming shortly Cavie78 (talk) 19:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)\

Infobox

• I'm a bit confused about the release date of the single - was it released on the same day as Blood on the Tracks? The infobox provides details of the single release, so I *assume* it is, but you don't clearly state the release date anywhere in the article.

• I think it was a bit later, either in Feb or March. I'll look for a reliable source. Bjorner and Krogsgaard both say it was Feb 1975, so I've included that.

Lead

• Seems ok

Background and recording

• "In the spring of 1974, Dylan had taken art classes at Carnegie Hall and was influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben, and, in particular, Raeben's view of time" Can you say *how* he was influenced? In his lyric writing (which is waht you state about Raeben in the Composition and lyrical interpretation section)?

• I've moved some of the content from "Composition and lyrical interpretation" here, and also added a line of commentary from Thomas. More may be required.

• You say that the track was rerecorded at Sound 80 on 30 December in the lead, but in the body you're much more vague - you just say December and don't name the studio

• Amended.

• "The New York version of this song" Feels a bit clumsy - maybe "The New York version of "Tangled Up in Blue""

• Amended.

• "Individual outtakes from the New York sessions were released" When you talk about the Bootleg Series, you should make it clear that you're talking about "Tangled Up in Blue" - could be taken to refer generally to outtakes from Blood on the Tracks

• Amended - not sure whether I should also amend the last part to make it specific to "Tangled Up in Blue" too.

• Anything to say about earlier takes, other than that they were in (or at least, one was) in open E? (particularly as they've been released on Bootleg albums)

• There doesn't seem to be much published about these so far, surprisingly. I've added in a little from the New Yorker.

Composition and lyrical interpretation

• "Michael Gray describes" / "Timothy Hampton has described" / "what Heylin has called" Who are these people and why are their opinions notable?

• I've wikilinked Gray and Heylin, and added a brief description for Hampton. Should I add more on Gray and Heylin?

• "describes the song as the story" I think you need to say "the structure of "Tangled Up in Blue's" lyrics" or similar here, as the Dylan quote that precedes this sentence is about the album's tracks generally

• Done.

• "and became on of" -> "becoming one of"

• Done.

• "Dylan has said that the live version recorded on the 1984 Real Live album is the best" Can you say when and where he said this? The ref is from 2007 and he's performed for 12/13 years since then

• Done, with a mention of in what respect, i.e. the imagery.

• "The version on his live album Real Live" You've already talked about Real Live so could maybe just say "The Real Live version"

• Done.

• "According to novelist Ron Rosenbaum..." Placement of this sentence seems odd as it talks about 1971's Blue and Dyland writing the track, which is covered earlier.

• Moved to background and recording.

Critical reception

• "Billboard regarded "Tangled Up in Blue"" Is this a contemporary review?

• It's in their review from 1975.

• "the 13th century poem" What poem?

• It used to be taken as referring to Dante's Inferno, but Hampton says it references Petrarch. I've expanded on this in the article.

• "and says it contains" -> "and saying that it contains" / "and stating that it contains"

• Done.

• "with the staff describing it as "where emotional truths meet the everlasting comfort of the American folk song."" I can't think of a way to rephrase this, but it seems a bit clumsy.

• Indeed. I tried to omit some of the more gushing and florid reviews (much as I might personally agree with them). Perhaps this should get the axe too?

Live performances

• "The most recent live performance as of October 2020 was on 28 August 2018 at Horncastle Arena, Christchurch, New Zealand" I'm a bit concerned that this sentence will need to be continually updated in the event things ever get back to normal and Dylan can tour again

• I'd included the "as of October 2020" to try and cover this, but happy to take advice on any reworking.

• Is there nothing to say about the live performances themselves? The Rolling Thunder version? Different ways in which it's been played (as alluded to elsewhere)

• Added/moved a bit, let me know what you think.

Refs

• SRogovoy, Seth -> Rogovoy, Seth

• Done.

• You seem to reference the same book twice - 10 and 21 - but in different ways

• Fixed.

• There's a mix of surname, first name and first name, surname in the refs (e.g. 30)

• Fixed. (Let me know if I missed any).

Looks pretty good, but placing on hold until my concerns are addressed Cavie78 (talk) 20:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Many thanks for your review, Cavie78. These are pertinent questions and excellent suggestions and I'll work my way through them. It's sometimes my favourite Dylan song too - Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:18, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Cavie78, I've been through your concerns and made quite a few changes - hopefully without introducing too many new issues. Thanks again, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks BennyOnTheLoose, looks a lot better. Just a few minor points below Cavie78 (talk) 10:42, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

• "influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben when writing the lyrics, and, in particular, Raeben's view of time" Think this could be worded better, maybe something like: "influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben, and, in particular Raeben's view of time, when writing the lyrics"

• Amended.

• "Eight takes were recorded in New York from 16 to 19 September, mostly featuring Tony Brown on bass alongside Dylan on guitar and harmonica, contained some minor variations in lyrics, as well as differences in vocal delivery, and tempo" "Contained" isn't right here considering how the sentence starts

• Changed to "and containing"

• "That December, working from a suggestion" and "on 30 December of that year" Two instances of "that" in the same sentence. Maybe lose "of that year"?

• Amended.

• "Zimmerman was the producer" Might be better to say "David Zimmerman" given that you haven't mentioned him since early in the section and Dylan's real name is Zimmerman

• Amended.

• "These were local musicians who had arrived" Might be better to say "These musicians were based locally and had arrived"

• Amended.

• "The Real Live version, as performed throughout his 1984 Europe tour" Link Real Live and maybe say "The version released on Real Live, as performed throughout his 1984 Europe tour"

• Amended.

• "Dylan has often stated that the song took "ten years to live and two years to write"." Maybe merge this with the subsequent paragraph?

• Done.

• "Cott likens" -> "Cott likened"

• Done.

Thanks, Cavie78. I've acted on your comments. Let me know anything else required. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC) Excellent, thanks BennyOnTheLoose, happy to promote. One thing you might want to consider if whether the infobox should be for the single, given that you include the b-side info (I know you changed it from single earlier). And should have said - image and song clip seem ok Cavie78 (talk) 12:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again, Cavie78, your review has undoubtedly made the article better. I had another look at Template:Infobox song and it says for the type parameter, "If an album track was later released as a single, use the most notable or best known." From what I've seen, it's the album track rather than the single which is more notable, but it looks like the B-side parameter should still be included. The picture of the single seems to me to be an "other image appropriate for the song". (Happy to be corrected.) Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:46, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Official video

This official (live) video is this one. But where and when was it recorded? The YouTube source doesn't seem to say. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 9 November 2021 (UTC)