Talk:Tangled Up in Blue/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 19:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

My favourite Dylan song (and that's saying something). Can't pass this one up - review coming shortly Cavie78 (talk) 19:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)\

Infobox

• I'm a bit confused about the release date of the single - was it released on the same day as Blood on the Tracks? The infobox provides details of the single release, so I *assume* it is, but you don't clearly state the release date anywhere in the article.

• I think it was a bit later, either in Feb or March. I'll look for a reliable source. Bjorner and Krogsgaard both say it was Feb 1975, so I've included that.

Lead

• Seems ok

Background and recording

• "In the spring of 1974, Dylan had taken art classes at Carnegie Hall and was influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben, and, in particular, Raeben's view of time" Can you say *how* he was influenced? In his lyric writing (which is waht you state about Raeben in the Composition and lyrical interpretation section)?

• I've moved some of the content from "Composition and lyrical interpretation" here, and also added a line of commentary from Thomas. More may be required.

• You say that the track was rerecorded at Sound 80 on 30 December in the lead, but in the body you're much more vague - you just say December and don't name the studio

• Amended.

• "The New York version of this song" Feels a bit clumsy - maybe "The New York version of "Tangled Up in Blue""

• Amended.

• "Individual outtakes from the New York sessions were released" When you talk about the Bootleg Series, you should make it clear that you're talking about "Tangled Up in Blue" - could be taken to refer generally to outtakes from Blood on the Tracks

• Amended - not sure whether I should also amend the last part to make it specific to "Tangled Up in Blue" too.

• Anything to say about earlier takes, other than that they were in (or at least, one was) in open E? (particularly as they've been released on Bootleg albums)

• There doesn't seem to be much published about these so far, surprisingly. I've added in a little from the New Yorker.

Composition and lyrical interpretation

• "Michael Gray describes" / "Timothy Hampton has described" / "what Heylin has called" Who are these people and why are their opinions notable?

• I've wikilinked Gray and Heylin, and added a brief description for Hampton. Should I add more on Gray and Heylin?

• "describes the song as the story" I think you need to say "the structure of "Tangled Up in Blue's" lyrics" or similar here, as the Dylan quote that precedes this sentence is about the album's tracks generally

• Done.

• "and became on of" -> "becoming one of"

• Done.

• "Dylan has said that the live version recorded on the 1984 Real Live album is the best" Can you say when and where he said this? The ref is from 2007 and he's performed for 12/13 years since then

• Done, with a mention of in what respect, i.e. the imagery.

• "The version on his live album Real Live" You've already talked about Real Live so could maybe just say "The Real Live version"

• Done.

• "According to novelist Ron Rosenbaum..." Placement of this sentence seems odd as it talks about 1971's Blue and Dyland writing the track, which is covered earlier.

• Moved to background and recording.

Critical reception

• "Billboard regarded "Tangled Up in Blue"" Is this a contemporary review?

• It's in their review from 1975.

• "the 13th century poem" What poem?

• It used to be taken as referring to Dante's Inferno, but Hampton says it references Petrarch. I've expanded on this in the article.

• "and says it contains" -> "and saying that it contains" / "and stating that it contains"

• Done.

• "with the staff describing it as "where emotional truths meet the everlasting comfort of the American folk song."" I can't think of a way to rephrase this, but it seems a bit clumsy.

• Indeed. I tried to omit some of the more gushing and florid reviews (much as I might personally agree with them). Perhaps this should get the axe too?

Live performances

• "The most recent live performance as of October 2020 was on 28 August 2018 at Horncastle Arena, Christchurch, New Zealand" I'm a bit concerned that this sentence will need to be continually updated in the event things ever get back to normal and Dylan can tour again

• I'd included the "as of October 2020" to try and cover this, but happy to take advice on any reworking.

• Is there nothing to say about the live performances themselves? The Rolling Thunder version? Different ways in which it's been played (as alluded to elsewhere)

• Added/moved a bit, let me know what you think.

Refs

• SRogovoy, Seth -> Rogovoy, Seth

• Done.

• You seem to reference the same book twice - 10 and 21 - but in different ways

• Fixed.

• There's a mix of surname, first name and first name, surname in the refs (e.g. 30)

• Fixed. (Let me know if I missed any).

Looks pretty good, but placing on hold until my concerns are addressed Cavie78 (talk) 20:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Many thanks for your review, Cavie78. These are pertinent questions and excellent suggestions and I'll work my way through them. It's sometimes my favourite Dylan song too - Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:18, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Cavie78, I've been through your concerns and made quite a few changes - hopefully without introducing too many new issues. Thanks again, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks BennyOnTheLoose, looks a lot better. Just a few minor points below Cavie78 (talk) 10:42, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

• "influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben when writing the lyrics, and, in particular, Raeben's view of time" Think this could be worded better, maybe something like: "influenced by his tutor Norman Raeben, and, in particular Raeben's view of time, when writing the lyrics"

• Amended.

• "Eight takes were recorded in New York from 16 to 19 September, mostly featuring Tony Brown on bass alongside Dylan on guitar and harmonica, contained some minor variations in lyrics, as well as differences in vocal delivery, and tempo" "Contained" isn't right here considering how the sentence starts

• Changed to "and containing"

• "That December, working from a suggestion" and "on 30 December of that year" Two instances of "that" in the same sentence. Maybe lose "of that year"?

• Amended.

• "Zimmerman was the producer" Might be better to say "David Zimmerman" given that you haven't mentioned him since early in the section and Dylan's real name is Zimmerman

• Amended.

• "These were local musicians who had arrived" Might be better to say "These musicians were based locally and had arrived"

• Amended.

• "The Real Live version, as performed throughout his 1984 Europe tour" Link Real Live and maybe say "The version released on Real Live, as performed throughout his 1984 Europe tour"

• Amended.

• "Dylan has often stated that the song took "ten years to live and two years to write"." Maybe merge this with the subsequent paragraph?

• Done.

• "Cott likens" -> "Cott likened"

• Done.

Thanks, Cavie78. I've acted on your comments. Let me know anything else required. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC) Excellent, thanks BennyOnTheLoose, happy to promote. One thing you might want to consider if whether the infobox should be for the single, given that you include the b-side info (I know you changed it from single earlier). And should have said - image and song clip seem ok Cavie78 (talk) 12:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again, Cavie78, your review has undoubtedly made the article better. I had another look at Template:Infobox song and it says for the type parameter, "If an album track was later released as a single, use the most notable or best known." From what I've seen, it's the album track rather than the single which is more notable, but it looks like the B-side parameter should still be included. The picture of the single seems to me to be an "other image appropriate for the song". (Happy to be corrected.) Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:46, 13 October 2020 (UTC)