Talk:Tarja Turunen/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: — Legolas ^(talk2me) 12:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, well, had to wait too long hurr? Starting review, should be an interesting read. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 12:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I would suggest taking a look at the dead link and redirect links by using the tool on the right hand side. Also at first glance some of these references surely lack reliability. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 17:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I allready used this tool, but that was some time ago (before the copy edit). I gonna do that for a second time as soon as possible.--212.23.103.109 (talk) 00:41, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Is there any progress fore this? — Legolas ^(talk2me) 13:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

They are all working now without redirecting. --Pass3456 (talk) 00:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Reliability of sources

Many of the sources appear as dubious. She's not an American artist I understand, but I want you to establish the reliability of the following sources:

1. Muzici si Faze.
2. Letssingit
3. Ref 8
4. Ref 18
5. Blabbermouth
6. MEtal-rules.com
7. Sounds2move.de
8. Powermetal.de
9. Rockblog.wordpress
10. Salzburg24.at
11. Jimdooley
12. Wordpress (This one is not reliable in any way)
13. Metalsymphoney
14. BabyBlaue
15. Ref 56 formatting is missing completely
16. Laut.de
17. Whiskey-soda.de (eww)
18. Kerrang.com
19. Vampster.com
20. Zoolamar
21. Also the book that you are using published by Torpinkylä: Deggael Communications, what is the reliability of this publisher? I couldnt find the book anywhere since no isbn is provided, neither gound anything for the publisher.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the reference problems. I hope you will be able to provide input on all of them. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 15:32, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Off course she is no american artist. Therefore there are many "foreign" sources. How do you whant me to establish the reliability of the following sources? P.s. Since I´m now on holliday I have to ask for some patientience (about one week) until I am able to work on that. --Pass3456 (talk) 21:45, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

You need to establish how the sources pass WP:RS. Yes you can take your time. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:41, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about all of the sources, but I know that Blabbermouth.net and Kerrang! are reliable even for FAs. Blabbermouth is something like Rap-Up, just for the rock music. My love is love (talk) 10:35, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Blabbermouth reliable for FA? Are you kidding me? They usually don't allow Rap-Up or "About.com", so understand that only high-quality sources are used. I see issues with the usage of all of those posted sources. Just because they are International, does not mean they can't be reputable European newspapers.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 00:38, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I'm saying that because I've seen Blabbermouth.net in this featured article. Check also here. My love is love (talk) 11:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

And have you seen when "Jihad" was promoted as a Featured article? In 2007, when Featured article reviews were pretty pathetic compared to now, and any damn source passed reliability. Not the case now. GA standard has been raised tremendously so any nonsense source is not tolerated. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 14:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Last question; that means blabbermouth and kerrang are not reliable for GAs? My love is love (talk) 15:28, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I added the ISBN number for the Ollila/Pohjola book.

According to the noticeboard the Kerrang! source is (at least) a reliable source for the quote [1].

Similarly many of those sources stand for a text that is marked as a statement e.g. "Turunen explained in an interview", "critics described Turunen's vocals using adjectives such as angelic or valkyrian".

I am trying now to ask for the reliability of prominent music magazines in generell. --Pass3456 (talk) 16:11, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I re-checked. Kerrang! is a pretty reliable source, while Blabbermouth and any Wordpress cannot be considered reliable. Many of those quotes cite a dubious source, hence it is the reliability of the publisher which questions the existence of the quote. You need to establish the reliability of the others. Take time as you want, but not too much of it. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 12:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, I´m doing it one by one. --Pass3456 (talk) 17:30, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Number one is deleted. Muzici si Faze is a famous romanian music magazin, but since it is just a second source we should not waste time on that one. --Pass3456 (talk) 17:30, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Number two is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 17:44, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Number three is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Number five is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 23:29, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Number nine is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 22:20, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Number ten replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 20:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Number eleven replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 20:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Number twelve is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 21:36, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Number thirteen is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 20:26, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Number twenty is replaced. --Pass3456 (talk) 22:20, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Pass3456, can you be a little swift now with the references? The article is up for a long time now, and the prose review hasn't been started yet. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 12:53, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Number 4: (German) Metal Hammer is a pretty big magazin in Germany. It sells 42,000 copies per month.

Number 6: Metal Rules is an old (16 years) and respected webzine, an authority in the metal genre. It´s run by music journalists, not a blog.

Number 7: Sounds2move.de is an 8 year old webzine. Famous for their interviews. It´s run by music journalists, not a blog.

Number 8: Powermetal.de [2] is an 14 year old webzine. It´s run by music journalists, not a blog.

Number 14: Babyblaue Seiten [3] is specialized in Progressive Rock / Metal. Famous for their reviews (often cited). It´s just a second source anyway.

Number 16: Laut.de [4] is a big german webzine (2 1/2 million viewers per month). It´s run by music journalists, not a blog. Won the award as best "Online Redaktion 2002" from "Landesanstalt für Kommunikation Baden-Württemberg".

Number 17: Whiskey-Soda.de [5] is an old (15 years) german webzine. It´s run by music journalists, not a blog.

Number 19: Vampster.com [6] german webzine, not a blog. Just a third source anyway.

These magazins are serious business. If you still have doubts on some of those sources I could go on replacing them though. --Pass3456 (talk) 20:26, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm starting with the prose. By the way, have you heard of {{harvnb}} template? Wherever you have used book references, it appears just repeating the same reference, with just the page number differing. It frankly looks messy. You can arrange it neatly by using that template. If you wanna see how that one is used, check an article like "Like a Prayer". — Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:25, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

It looks better now. --Pass3456 (talk) 21:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• Tarja Soile Susanna Turunen Cabuli or Tarja Turunen --> That's now how a lead starts. It should start like --> Tarja Soile Susanna Turunen Cabuli better known as Tarja Turunen (born August 17, 1977), is an...
• The section doesnot summarize anything about her early life, and goes directly into Nightwish. This is in violation of WP:LEAD.
• professional classical (art song) singer --> Art song is classical, so you can directly say "professional art song singer"
• quickly aroused the enthusiasm of critics and audiences --> aroused enthusiasm? This reads like an erotic novel.. Try like "achieved them critical and commercial popularity"
• Turunen was dismissed from the band on October 21, 2005. --> Incomplete sentence since it doesnot give context as to why she was dismissed.
• Why the exact date for What Lies Beneath is needed?
• Her Storm World Tour supported this album --> Incomplete sentence

Main bio

• Ideally there should be date ranges to denote the timeline of a person's bio. See FAs on female musicians like Madonna and Mariah Carey.

Early life

• Why aren't her parents name mentioned?
• The quotes in this section is copy-pasted from the source, hence they are not wikiformatted especially the commas and the quotation marks. Edit this section and change and manually add the quotation marks.
• Whitney and Aretha inspiration needs source.
• Song names are NOT italicized. Please keep this in mind in future. The Phantom of the Opera should be "The Phantom of the Opera".

More coming.... — Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:53, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. Have worked on that. --Pass3456 (talk) 21:49, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Are we near a decision here? The GA review's been going for a while. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:55, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

• Looks like it is waiting on Legolas, but... Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

• I'll give this a read-through tomorrow and give any final comments due to the reviewer disappearing. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:07, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey all, I'm back again. Pass3456, apologies to you first for leaving you in the dark with this. I will post the final review by EOD. Real life call was too big to avoid. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)