Talk:Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Maharana Fateh Singh and Thakur Kesari Singh.jpg
• Rajasthan Kesari Newspaper.jpg
• Shahpura Haveli of Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath.jpg
• Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath State Museum Shahpura.jpg
• Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath in young age.jpg
• Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath portrait.jpg
• Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath with others.jpg

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Sourcing

The sourcing in this article appears to be very poor, yet I have so far found little mention of the man in academic sources etc. What we have here is a lot of glorifying sources written in the immediate post-independence period when India was keen to laud its freedom fighters and "local heroes", usually with an uncritical eye. They're really not suitable, even if we did provide translations/quotes from them. - Sitush (talk) 11:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush: This seems to be the version (largely unsourced) before the major bloat starting with this revision. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, Fylindfotberserk.

Krayon95 do you understand the issues here? I realise that the version before your edits was terrible but, really, not much of what you have added is good either. Given your desire seemingly always to glorify Charan people, I probably should have realised that you might have been involved. I think it is going to need some dramatic pruning, as will the related Barhath family biographies. Incidents such as the Hardinge event & the Delhi conspiracy are notable but when so few modern sources cite the hagiographies of the 1940s-1970s when discussing those events, we should recognise that there is probably something out of kilter. Many more recent sources don't even name the conspirators, and I have yet to find one that refers to the "Revolutionary Party", even when reading up on Bose himself. I've actually wondered whether what was meant was "revolutionary party", which is a completely different thing. - Sitush (talk) 12:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, @Sitush. I had contributed to these articles more than a year back when I was new to wiki editing and proper citing. Since some time, I had in mind to improve the language and sources but couldn't get to it since it is a lot of work. In between, @Miniapolis had also shortened and summarized this article. "Revolutionary Party"-this name is there in a lot of sources. I remember reading that 'Veer Bharat Sabha' founded by Kesari Singh is supposed to be a branch of RP in Rajputana. Yes, "Revolutionary Party" might also be a generic name for the revo-org associated with Bose. Thank you. Krayon95 (talk) 14:00, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Krayon95 As far as I am aware, Thakur is a title. All of these Barhath articles use it but I think that is probably wrong, per WP:HONORIFIC. Is it a title when used for these people? - Sitush (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

The person used that name in his writings including poetry + also referred by contemporary and later sources in that manner. Krayon95 (talk) 14:20, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Krayon95 All of them used it? Seems odd. Eg: Thakur Zorawar Singh Barhath. They were aristocrats of a sort, so I suspect it is a title.

BTW, wrong talk page really but even the modern sources used in the Thakur Zorawar Singh Barhath article are rubbish, it seems. Eg: one says he was arrested in Kota, another says never; one says he went into hiding in Rajasthan, another says MP; one says he was in hiding from after the Hardinge incident, another says from nine years before it. A complete mess & I'm half-tempted to ask for the articles to be stripped to nothing & redirected, so poor is the sourcing. - Sitush (talk) 14:28, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush. I don't have the exact sources at hand, but I can clarify that Zorawar Singh was apprehended once, but not arrested, since he was identified as someone else, with Fateh Singh (close to the family) himself verifying the fact. Also, the ruler of Sitamau also aided him while in his domains. Respectfully, I remember everything being sourced in the articles, the issue might be the citations are misplaced and also being unfamiliar.

For ex: Khera is not a distinct place, the village is known variously as Devpura/Devkheda/Devpura Kheda/Kheda etc in the sources.

+ The year 1903 refers to the 1903 Delhi Durbar, again the Barhath family was involved; denounced the decision of Fateh Singh to attend the Durbar etc. Krayon95 (talk) 15:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Krayon95 If the sources aren't clear, we can't be clear. And it raises questions about the quality of the sources. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)