Talk:The Amazing Race 11

Suggestion for those editing the episode as it goes along

I've no problem with during-show edits, but I would recommend if you watch what you include as the change name and not include too much spoiler information, such that those that live on the west coast aren't too spoiled but can still use their watchlist page in the 3 hrs between here and there. Certainly after a half-day after the show's aired, specific notes are ok, but it's just for the short term edits. --Masem 01:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Accurate Finish Order

Okay:Tough decision: We have an an accurate finish order for the entire race. Do we put it on Wikipedia to keep articles up to date and of the highest quality, or keep it out because it's way too spoilery. I say put it in. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 00:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I say we don't. Since this show has not completed yet, it would be too much of a spoilery. Besides, who would want to watch a show when you know the winner already? Sattonm 01:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Sattonm

Concern with Sattonm. Location spoilers are one thing, as they reveal where they go but not the tasks or who's winning. And while WP can't stop for spoilers, any such list is really unverifiable, which is definitely outside WP territory. --Masem 01:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty verifiable. Check the first four teams they said were going to be eliminated. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 01:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to be very bold and add it, as well as spoiler warnigns. It doesn't matter how much of a spoiler it is. Wikipedia doesn't run on tape delay. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 01:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to be just as bold and remove it while Wikipedia does not run on tape delay, this is nothing but a rumour up until the final episode airs, plus it seems concensus does not want it on the page. EnsRedShirt 02:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree about it being verifiable. The pictures caught for sightings tells you that some teams don't get to a certain point, but there's enough lacking detail that you cannot spot the boot order perfectly with the limited location sighting information, even if it's got the first 4 boots right. On the other hand, if this is a leaked bootlist from CBS/WRP, and thus being correct, it can't be verified unless said source wants to come forward.... which is unlikely to happen. I agree that there's no tape-delay, but as we have it, we have already linked in the F5 pictures which spell out the last 5 teams based on a location sighting, so I think that is appropriate for the article as it stands. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Masem (talk • contribs) 02:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

I would suggest including the leaked bootlist as a trivia item. That has been done in the past, such as the article for TAR8. While Canoe-Jam is a verifiable source, their use of an anonymous messageboard poster as reference is not. Without knowing the identity of the leak, there's no assurance if the entire list is accurate.--Madchester 02:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't believe it either, but the first four were correct, and it included a team you would never expect to be last. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 02:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete reference to finishing order or place at bottom with plenty of advance spoiler warning.--RexRex84 02:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree with adding it right in the middle of the page. Having "spoiler warning" one line above it doesn't keep people from reading it if they do not want to read it. If it is absolutely necessary to add it to Wikipedia, then make a separate page for it and link to it. Then, a casual reader will not accidentally see the list. Unlike normal spoilers, which require you to read, a list of names is easily absorbed with a simple glance. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

There's no need for a different page, and the section is cleary marked Future Finishing Order. If it must, it can go at the bottom. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 02:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Apparently I did not make any sense before, so I will try to state this differently:

Regardless of what the header is or what color the warning is - the textual contents of a future finishing order is so small that it is very easy for a person to read it BEFORE realizing what it is. It is idiotic to assume people will read every word on the page from top to bottom and stop when they see the word "future" or "spoiler". A normal person scans the page for interesting information and will easily read the finishing order BEFORE reading the note that it is a spoiler - because there is so little text, it is easy to read. Once that happens, you cannot unread it. If that is too difficult to understand, I will attempt to explain it differently. --Kainaw ^(talk) 18:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

As per the above, I think that the "spoiled list" isn't sufficiently verifiable, since it's from an anonymous source, and so it shouldn't be included in the article in any fashion. However, the fact that there is a spoiled list that appears accurate is verifiable and has been reported on by the Canoe article linked above, so I think that we should put in a section discussing the fact that a list was apparently leaked. Basically, we have a Canoe article as a verifiable source to talk about the fact that a list exists, and what it means, but we don't have any verifiable source for the list itself. So we can talk about the fact that there is a list, we just shouldn't include the actual list as fact. Does that make sense? (I think I just gave myself a headache) --Maelwys 19:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should just state that the result were leaked and attached the link with it. Like that noone can complain that they have their race spoiled. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.50.88.220 (talk) 13:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

It's unverified information. Until the race is over, it would be against WP policy to even link it. --Masem 13:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I would consider it pretty reliable. The first seven teams eliminated were on the list in the correct order. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@(Lets go Yankees!) 14:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

That means someone made a serious breach of confidentiality. That does not mean we should condone it. The original source was a message board. Although the article writer chose to pass on the leak to readers, the information presented is speculative. Whether or not the order was or would be correct, it is still speculative and still a crystal ball. Although I don't think TeckWiz intends it to be, including such information or pointing to it would be a malicious attempt to undermine the natural progression of the show (i.e. knowing who the ultimate winner is would cause fewer viewers to watch the show) and add more problems to Wikipedia's reputation. I think discussion of the leak in Wikipedia is appropriate only when the Amazing Race production issues a response to it. Otherwise, we would be promoting unofficial insider information at best. Tinlinkin 16:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Tinlinkin. If we put it in the article, it could end up hurting Wikipedia's reputation more, as it could end up spreading the news of the leak further than it already has been spread. I didn't take a look at it (I don't want to be spoiled), but I say we should keep it off the page. --LuigiManiac 16:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Preview for Leg 6

I could be wrong.....but when watching the previews, on the plane where Eric and Danielle were thrown off, I saw a flag, and after doing flag browsing, it looked like the flag of Malawi . So it could be assumed if I'm correct; that the next leg will take place there. --Squall41269 04:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• Well we know at least part of the episode takes place in Tanzania, or Zanzibar to be specific.--Irishboi 22:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• I finally saw the CBS ad during tonights survivor to confirm what you said. What i typed was almost immediatley after the previews when no information was at the time available. :) --Squall41269 04:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

• It's probably a connection flight but it's possible (and I hope it is) that part of the leg could be in Malawi. DanielTAR

Uchenna & Joyce

Uchenna & Joyce Being marked for elimination

The article stated "Uchenna & Joyce received the 30 minute penalty on Leg 6 for not coming in first place when marked for elimination. They are the first team to incur this penalty without being eliminated since the "Marked for Elimination" penalty was introduced in Season 10". I removed this as it is incorrect (in season 10, Dave and Mary were Marked for Elimination and won the Fast Forward clue. They came in first and were not eliminated. later on, they were marked for elimination and were eliminated then). So, Ucheena and Joyce were not the first team to be marked but not eliminated. Iamtall47 01:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The fact was true- it added the stipulations that they were the first MFE team to NOT place first (and thus suffer the penalty) but yet not be eliminated. So the fact is actually true. --Masem 02:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Their elimination

Did anyone else notice that they were not shown in the same shot as Phil when they were eliminated? --evrik ^(talk) 20:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Pre emptive editing

Why is route for the next episode (7 and 8) up on the page. the episode hasn't been aired yet and thought a decision about posting spoilers--Irishboi 15:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Ads have confirmed the locations that the teams are going to for this leg. --Masem 16:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

No. of episodes

Was the 7th episode counted as one episode or two seperate episodes. the cbs website counts the entire two as episode 7, NOT episode 7 and 8 I guess what i'm asking is, are there five or four episodes left in the season--Irishboi 01:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Every guide listing I've seen, if they separate it out as two one-hour segments, have it "(part 1)" and "(part 2)", which implies a single episode. --Masem 01:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The CBS website lists it as a single, two hour long episode. Most likely they did it this way because there was a such large gap between some of the teams that some teams were heading out to start leg 8 before others had even finsihed leg 7. 66.68.6.110 00:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Leaked destinations

How are we now allowing landmark destinations for episodes that have not yet aired? Tinlinkin 16:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The sourced ones (Guam and SF) should stay, but anything not sourced (even if just to a forum post id'ing landmarks from the episode preview) should be nixed. --Masem 16:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

AmazingRaceLogo in Finish Line?

Since this is the current season, I guess more people would be able to comment. From the articles of the previous seasons, only Seasons 3, 9 and 10 has the AmazingRaceLogo (>Finish Line<) been used to denote the Finish Line. The other seasons do not have the image when denoting the Finish Line. I think there should be a uniform way of denoting the Finish Line, and placing the AmazingRaceLogo should be done. --Hakushu8 06:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. We should have them on a all pages. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@(Lets go Yankees!) 11:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds great. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.50.88.127 (talk) 01:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

Using @ for task descriptions

In the articles of the previous seasons, someone started using the @ symbol to describe tasks performed by the teams that were not in the Detour/Roadblock/Fast Forward, and also to describe the location of the yield. I guess if anyone would like to describe additional tasks the teams do, it would be nice if they should use the @ symbol. For example in Episode 9, where the teams who didn't do the FF had to go to Victoria Park to get the gnome from a junk-like toy boat, it could be like:

• Hong Kong (Victoria Park) @

(below the route markers)
@ To obtain the Pit Stop clue, teams had to pull a model boat carrying a Travelocity gnome from one end of a pond to the other without having it fall into the water; the Pit Stop clue was contained in the bottom of the boat. - Hakushu8 11:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that, though I think it should be roughly in the order of the tasks (for the most recent leg, the gnome boat pull should be after the Detour/RB. But related to this, I'm also wondering if it makes sense to consider possibly of using not so much a list format but a format that one can what the D, RB, and FF were. For example, instead of what presently is there for the last leg:

@ Teams had to pull a model boat carrying a Travelocity gnome from one end of a pond to the other without having the gnome fall into the water; the Pit Stop clue was contained in the bottom of the boat.

In the second of only two Fast Forwards on the race, teams had to travel five miles to a film set where a high-speed stunt was being filmed for an action movie. When they arrived, they had to get in a car with a professional stunt driver and complete a stunt course, involving sharp turns and the car flipping over. This leg's detour was Kung Fu Fighting or Lost in Translation. In Kung Fu Fighting, teams had to travel five miles to Tonkin Street and find a nearby building. Once there, they had to climb up an 11-story bamboo scaffold while avoiding an ongoing battle between stunt kung fu experts to reach the top and retrieve their next clue. In Lost in Translation, teams needed to make their way four miles to Kowloon City and find Nga Tsin Wai Road. Once there, they had to search among hundreds of similar-looking Chinese signs for the specific sign shown in a photo in their clue. When they matched the photo with the correct store sign, the owner would hand them their next clue. In the Roadblock for this leg, one teammate had to kick down doors, and search the rooms behind the doors for their clue.

I would suggest something like:

Fast Forward: Teams had to travel five miles to a film set where a high-speed stunt was being filmed for an action movie. When they arrived, they had to get in a car with a professional stunt driver and complete a stunt course, involving sharp turns and the car flipping over. This was the second and last Fast Forward on this Race.

Detour:

Kung Fu Fighting: Teams had to travel five miles to Tonkin Street and find a nearby building. Once there, they had to climb up an 11-story bamboo scaffold while avoiding an ongoing battle between stunt kung fu experts to reach the top and retrieve their next clue.

Lost in Translation: Teams needed to make their way four miles to Kowloon City and find Nga Tsin Wai Road. Once there, they had to search among hundreds of similar-looking Chinese signs for the specific sign shown in a photo in their clue. When they matched the photo with the correct store sign, the owner would hand them their next clue

Roadblock: One teammate had to kick down doors in an old, abandoned Hong Kong police station, and search the rooms behind the doors for their clue.

@ Additional Task: Teams had to pull a model boat carrying a Travelocity gnome from one end of a pond to the other without having the gnome fall into the water; the Pit Stop clue was contained in the bottom of the boat.

(I only copied and pasted from the original entry, so I'm not rewriting what's there). It's a little easier to follow given that these elements are well identified in each leg of any race. Yes, that would mean adjusting the older pages as well, but it's just an idea. --Masem 15:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Last season we have exactly the same situation for this, but I'm suggest at least get more opinions or have straw polls to ensure everyone is agree about the changes. --Aleenf1 16:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I like this format much more than what we are currently using. It makes it easier to read, instead of just one paragraph for all of the tasks. --LuigiManiac 16:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Hong Kong locations

I fixed some of the entries to this leg.

• Teams were required to use the Star Ferry at Tsim Sha Tsui to Central, as indicated by the clue and Phil's voiceover. C+M used the Cross Harbour Tunnel which was incorrect and would have resulted in a penalty, since they didn't follow the clue properly.

• The Hong Kong Jockey Club is composed of two main racecourses (Happy Valley and Sha Tin), a health club in Happy Valley and dozens of retail locations across the city, where people can buy lottery and horse racing tickets. The club is an organization, and not a specific location. Therefore an additional identifier is needed to indicate the teams visited the club's Happy Valley location.

If not indicated on the main list, it could be incorporated into the mini-paragraph about the tasks. --Madchester 15:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The highest jump in TAR history

For the roadblock in Leg 11, phil said that the roadblock task is to jump from Macau tower's observation deck to the street level (with safety ropes of course!). Phil also said that this jump is the highest jump in the whole The Amazing Race history. Should we add this to the trivia? Aranho 13:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I would think so. Jumps are a common challenge on TAR, and so I would think that this season having the biggest jump (at least for now, they'll probably still find some way to go even bigger next season) would be notable enough for inclusion in the trivia section. --LuigiManiac 13:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I just read somewhere that this skyjump was about 660 ft. Wasn't the one bungy jump from Season 4, from the Donauturm in Vienna, about 1100 ft? --HansTAR 23:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The article for that season says the Donauturm jump was 460 ft. I'll have to do a more in-depth check to confirm it though. --LuigiManiac 00:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

So far, I can't find any external sites to source it. I can't read the Donauturm website. The only new thing I have found is that our Donauturm article gives the height in meters, and I can't remember exactly how to convert meters to feet. --LuigiManiac 00:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, height to the platform is 492ft, while height of the building is 820ft. --Aleenf1 04:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The height of Macau Tower is 338m (1,109 ft) and the height of the deck is 233m which is about 760 ft. See official website of Macau Tower, so that was really the highest jump in the amazing race history. --HeiChon 10:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Dustin and Kandice

Since the teammates both have articles, is it a good idea to create a dab page for them? I thought of redirecting them but they participated on two seasons so a dab page is the next option, or have no page at all. Any suggestions? --Howard the Duck 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think no page at all. I don't think people would expect a combined page. They'd just find the individual ones on the season pages. --TeckWiz is now R ^ParlateContribs_@(Let's go Yankees!) 20:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm gonna add "Yield Queens" as their nickname since they acknowledged it. 23prootie 09:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Also about combining them, well they were treated as seperate people before the race so it does not make sense.23prootie 09:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Go tell that to Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, the article was treated like conjoined twins, lol.

What I'm trying to do is a disambiguation page like "For contestants of the television program The Amazing Race, see Dustin-Leigh Konzelman and Kandice Pelletier", not an entirely new article about them as a team. --Howard the Duck 12:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Then why don't you just disambiguate to season ten, where it would be relevant.--23prootie 17:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

But the redirect is also equally relevant here. --Howard the Duck 16:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

RFD: Alternate format for each leg

Up in the talk subject about using "@" for additional tasks, I included an alternate form for the leg information. Instead of the prose, I suggested something similar to the following, with a slight change to use dl's (tasks are fake, obviously):

Detour

• Chicken: Teams had to corral 1000 chickens into a pen.
• Egg: Teams had to find a specially marked egg out of 10,000.

Roadblock

The team member had to milk a cow, filling a bucket past a market line to complete the task.

Additional Task

Teams had to drive a tractor to the pit stop.

Basically, this doesn't touch the current leg information (locations with the icons next to them), and only helps to denote text that is present in each leg already. Tasks would be presented in order (eg if the RB was first, then it would be listed first).

The only major problem that I see is that if it's done here, it needs to be done on the other 10 race pages, which is a task I offer to do if it's agreed to this format (again, it's simple to do given that I'm not planning on changing the existing text unless necessary).

Thus, I'm opening the floor to see what the consensus is about changing the format. As with most WP RFD, I ask for a Support or Oppose or Comments on the issue. --Masem 20:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support: Makes it easier to identify the tasks on the legs without huge rewrites. --Masem 20:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
• Support-Makes it easier to see. --TeckWiz is now R ^ParlateContribs_@(Let's go Yankees!) 23:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Support: As I said in the above thread, this format is much easier to read. You don't have to sift through a whole paragraph to find information on a particular task, which I found annoying and unruly when I first read these articles. You've got a fair bit of work ahead of you if you're going to go through and reformat all of the previous seasons' articles, but I think it is a great idea if you're up to it. --LuigiManiac 04:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
• Support: The TAR5 article has been partly done the way you suggested, Masem. And I would also like to volunteer and help you out with the changes. --Hakushu8 15:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • The only thing I notice with the TAR5 version is that the tasks are interspersed in the location information. While chronologically true, I think it's easier to read if the task section is separate from the location section (basically meaning that in TAR5's article, it's just a matter of moving things out of these lists. I'm going to wait until the weekend to make sure there is no strong disagreement to the format change then I'll edit the articles en masse. --Masem 15:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
• Support would definitely be easier this way. Especially since those of us with other addins installed can't even see the mouseover text on the graphics, so we have to scan through the entire paragraph just to find the names of the task. This would make it stand out a lot better. Also, a suggestion. Create one "template" that we all agree upon for a format, and then put up a "signup sheet" of each season. If we each convert 1-2 seasons, it'll be easy to get through it all without relying on one person to do all the work. --Maelwys 15:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to consider 4 true WP templates, one for Detour, FF, RB, and Additional Task, such that one could enter something like {{amazingraceRB|name=Who's really hungry?|task=The selected team member had to eat 4 pounds of beef}}. This would allow it easily to make changes across the board should the first format seem wrong. --Masem 15:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Although I like that idea, the main problem with it would be that it would prevent us from using the icons for Detour, FF, and RB. Unfortunately it's against fair use policy to put any fair use images (which those are) into templates of any kind. So if we want to keep using those icons, we have to do it the non-template way. --Maelwys 16:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Well, the way I'm proposing is that the location list with task icons remains the way it is; the true WP templates would be only for the task descriptions that would then be placed below ALL location information for the leg. (As counter to this, see TAR5's page, which is not the way I was proposing, with location and task details intermingled in each leg). --Masem 16:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
        • Ah, okay. I misunderstood, and thought you were aiming more for the TAR5 style. Alrighty then, that's not an issue and it should work. --Maelwys 17:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
      • From above, I've made some TAR templates that I propose to use:

• Template:TARDetour
• Template:TARRoadBlock
• Template:TARFastForward
• Template:TARTask

Here's examples of their implementation (FIXED as of 4-27-2007 to remove need for named parameter, as suggested below)

{{TARDetour|
Name1=Chicken|
Task1=Teams had to '''find''' a [[chicken]]<ref>Just checking</ref>.|
Name2=Egg|
Task2=Teams had to locate an [[egg]].}}
{{TARRoadBlock|
The selected team member had to locate a red coffee bean.}}
{{TARFastForward|
The team had to shave their heads bald.}}
{{TARTask|
The teams had to bungie jump from a tall tower prior to getting the pit stop clue.}}

Here are the results of these

Detour

Chicken{{:}} Teams had to find a chicken.

Egg{{:}} Teams had to locate an egg.

Roadblock

The selected team member had to locate a red coffee bean.

Fast Forward

The team had to shave their heads bald.

Additional Task

The teams had to bungie jump from a tall tower prior to getting the pit stop clue.

Wikimarkup works inside the tags (so links and references can stay). --Masem 00:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. My only objection would be that it requires more text input than it should, which sorta takes away from the idea that this is supposed to be quick and easy. ;-) Change the detour parameter names to Name1 Task1 Name2 Task2, and remove the parameter names from all the other templates (since there's only one parameter going in, we don't need to name it). Then we can just use {{TARTask|The teams had to bungie jump}}, more straightforward, less parameter names to remember. ;-) --Maelwys 14:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is it that every time I check here there is some better way of doing things? As long as the suggested changes are made to the template, this looks like it would be even better than the previous suggestions. Just out of curiosity, that Fast Forward has been done (twice, if memory serves me correctly), and so has the additional task (that double length leg in a recent season) so have the Detour and the Road Block been done before too? --LuigiManiac 14:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

The Detour options were just stupid examples, and I wrote the first things to mind for the others.

Also, I've simplified the templates as suggested above. I may try to figure out how to add in optional parameters (for example, if known, do we include the RB "hint"?) --Masem 15:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support; If it can really can down the article size, of course easy to read. --Aleenf1 16:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - Is this also usable for the Amazing Race Asia version?23prootie 16:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Don't see why not. I'm assuming there's the usual stuff on Asia compared to the US. --Masem 00:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. I have no qualms with the suggestion, as long as it doesn't add "too much fat" to the article. The problem with adding so many additional headings for each task is that it really extends the length of an article. --Madchester 00:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I unfortunately do think it will make the article page physically longer, but at the benefit of added clarity of what happened when. If you look at the Apprentice pages, for example, most of the episode info could be condensed into a prose paragraph, but then determining the results would be much harder. That's why I'm RFDing this: it doesn't change content, only appearance. --Masem 15:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support as being easier to read, although in the past I proposed a wikitable format that I thought was better. (It is at User:Tinlinkin/The Amazing Race table, which looks messy now becuase the fair use images there were just removed recently.) But I certainly hope the TAR season pages won't end up like those for The Apprentice (e..g. The Apprentice (US Season 6)). Tinlinkin 16:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I don't want it to become a bullet point festival. The information is straight up task facts but with no "how" or "why" teams did certain things, so I can't see it being more detailed than that. --Masem 17:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment. I noticed that excessive headings are a problem for certain reality show articles... like the ones for the Apprentice, Hell's Kitchen (US TV series), etc. That's my main concern with this change, since those articles are rather unreadable.

• I've copied and edited the current TAR11 page (about midnight 4/28) with the proposed changed in the paragraphs so that the concerns about possible length and bullet-happiness can be reviewed and addressed. (It took about 20 minutes to convert it with a few wording changes). The sample page is at User:Masem/TAR11Test. --Masem 06:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

References

Roadblock Rule

I know recently it's been said in articles that it's unknown if the 6 Roadblock rule still exists. Eric said in tonights episode "he already did all his Roadblocks", so whereever it is in recent articles, "may ....." should be taken out. --TeckWiz is now R ^ParlateContribs_@(Let's go Yankees!) 00:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Guam is not a country.

For leg 12, they are already in the United States. Guam is not a country. So the heading for Leg 12 should be:

Leg 12 (People's Republic of China → United States)

If Guam has to be named as the destination, then the same thing should be done for Puerto Rico in The Amazing Race 7. Remember that it was a destination then. And like Guam, it is a US territory. So the heading for the last leg there should be:

Leg 12 (Jamaica → Puerto Rico →United States)

But then it shouldn't be as the case, as it is not a country, like Guam. How would saying that Guam is a country fit here? --Hakushu8 05:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

You are confused about country, state and nation. --Howard the Duck 13:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Guam is a territory of the United States, and not an official state in the US. So it is right Guam is used in the heading. - 上村七美 | talk 15:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

See list of countries and go to letter "G". --Howard the Duck 02:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Does any one still care on this matter? Guam is a separate country than the U.S. -- it's like saying the Commonwealth of the Philippines isn't a country when it was a U.S. colony. Of course, common parlance would say otherwise, but a sovereign state, country and nation are different things. --Howard the Duck 16:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, but you're right. S7 should say Puerto Rico. --TeckWiz is now R ^ParlateContribs_@(Let's go Yankees!) 17:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I would appreciate if the readers of this page did not arbitrarily delete my previous posts regarding national sovereignty. Let me reiterate what I wrote.

The "People's Republic of China" indeed has ultimate sovereignty over the Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong. However, Hong Kong is distinctly different than the rest of China, even having its own Olympic Team. The situation is similar in Macau. Further, The Amazing Race did not send teams into the Chinese countryside, in which case they certainly would have been in China proper. They were sent to these special administrative zones as specific episode destinations.

As far as Guam, it is a territory of the United States, and like Hong Kong and Macau, not part of the United States proper. It too was an episode destination in its own right.

Whoever continually deletes my posts on this discussion page and corrections on the main entry, please discuss here rather than continually falsifying the Wikipedia entry for this show. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.24.108 (talk • contribs)

OK, what I'm do is refer to the past season, e.g. Season 2 when they visit Hong Kong (People's Republic of China), than I'm edit. The changes only can make when more people agree, so sorry if I'm make mistake, but that's the way I'm do something. Thank you. --Aleenf1 06:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC) (copied from my talk page) Tinlinkin 06:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia needs to be trimmed

There's too many trivia entries. They need to removed ASAP --Madchester 15:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

It does look excessive, and I would argue there's four types of information buried in this: true trivia (like how Mary has a Missing: Chos shirt), notable in-race trivia (U&C doing all the tasks in India, or the missing RB in Poland), trivia specifically dealing with the fact that these teams have run the race twice and thus have broken more records (O/D having the largest # of FFs done), and trivia about the results of this specific race (two FF teams in final 3).

Of these four: true trivia could be removed, notable trivia and specific race records needs to stay, reracing trivia should be moved to a specific section.

Maybe what can be done and reflected on all other TAR pages is that we create a "Race Firsts and Records" section separate from the Trivia section, and separate all those from some in-leg trivia. Specifically for TAR11, I'd add a subsection of "Records for All-Stars" to include things like D/O having the most FFs. --Masem 16:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

True trivia need to stay, but how much fair to bring the record for the team from past season and add together with this season as race records trivia, i mean not all teams have second chance to race, so it won't fair to have this as trivia, I'm support to remove this trivia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aleenf1 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Given that the series-wide TAR trivia page is up for an RFD and the fellow that RFD'd it added the trivia tags, I took a major step to start to correct these issues:

• "Trivia" (in the season) is now "Notable Events", this was done over at the Survivor page after it was up for an RFD.
• Anything dealing with "a TAR first", I completely removed. This actually does two things; first, this information is better over at the TAR trivia/notable events. Second, removing these avoids the issue with "future race spoilers" that we have to deal with.

If anyone is still interested in TAR firsts trivia, we could follow the mode used by Survivor and put them in a separate subheading. Unless you think it might open a can of worms or something... --Destron Commander 09:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

• The only trivia left are events highly specific to this race, and most specifically about certain aspects of some legs or pre-/post-race details.

I would almost then be tempted to move the leg-specific details into the Leg Locations (which, with the format suggest above, I'd create a leg note template to help out there). This would then leave us, with general, pre-race, and post-race notes, which could then be called something else, dunno what.

Those that are working on all the other TAR pages, I suggest we try to figure it out on TAR11 first, as it would make it easier to fix all the other races, instead of trying to fix all those simultaneously and not be happy with the result. --Masem 06:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Support: Why should involve career records, this is great to have notable events only, I'm support, it totally cut down the article size and does not look mess at all.
Why does not use table for task description, look more nice i think. Example (Leg 12):

We could do away with trivia that mentions events that happened too many times in previous races such as Yield effect. Do we have to say "this is the fourth time that a team that yielded another has placed lower than the yielded team." If it happens in every season, it's not really special info anymore, is it? --Destron Commander 06:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Detour

Roadblock

Care Package: Teams must fill a 500 pound package with various humanitarian aid items for a neighboring island. Once complete, the teams must then board onto a transport plane and participate in an air drop training exercise. Though easier, the mission would take at least half an hour. Engine Care: Teams had to clean an engine pod and associated flap section on the wing of a B-52 bomber until one of the base's sergeants feels the portion of the plane is clean enough.

Teams had to perform a search and rescue mission. Using a GPS receiver, team members have to find a pilot in the Guam forest, receive new GPS co-ordinates from him, locate the landing zone, and signal for a helicopter to pick them up and bring them back to the naval base.

Table can build continuous, not necessary break for each leg, it can be build in bottom, after race locations. This only my idea, just take for consideration. --Aleenf1 07:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think a table with a lot of prose text and little data is potentially stylistically abusing the purpose of a table; there's nothign WP-fundamentally wrong with it, it just looks... heavy. Also, given how much text, you'd only want one column of text heavy information.

If we were to go to a table, I would do something like:

Leg	Route	Locations	Tasks
12	People's Republic of China → United States	*Macau to Hong Kong (Hong Kong International Airport) to Tamuning, Guam , USA (Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport)
		*Yigo (Andersen Air Force Base) >Detour (Care Package or Engine Care)<	Detour Care Package - Teams must fill a 500 pound package with various humanitarian aid items for a neighboring island. Once complete, the teams must then board onto a transport plane and participate in an air drop training exercise. Though easier, the mission would take at least half an hour. Engine Care - Teams had to clean an engine pod and associated flap section on the wing of a B-52 bomber until one of the base's sergeants feels the portion of the plane is clean enough.
		*Santa Rita (Orote Peninsula – US Naval Base) >Roadblock (Who's ready to search far and wide?)<	Roadblock Teams had to perform a search and rescue mission. Using a GPS receiver, team members have to find a pilot in the Guam forest, receive new GPS co-ordinates from him, locate the landing zone, and signal for a helicopter to pick them up and bring them back to the naval base.
		*Umatac (Fort Nuestra Señora de la Soledad) >Pitstop (Leg 12)<

That way, as suggested, you could run all the location descriptions into a single table. But see how "heavy" that feels (at least to me?). (And no, I'm not married to the original format I suggested, I'm trying to find a style that is easy to work with, gets the info across more directly, and will help to keep pages consistent in light of trying to cut down trivia. --Masem 12:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, too heavy, i'm agree. How about this?

Detour

• Care Package: Teams must fill a 500 pound package with various humanitarian aid items for a neighboring island. Once complete, the teams must then board onto a transport plane and participate in an air drop training exercise. Though easier, the mission would take at least half an hour.

• Engine Care: Teams had to clean an engine pod and associated flap section on the wing of a B-52 bomber until one of the base's sergeants feels the portion of the plane is clean enough.

Roadblock

• Teams had to perform a search and rescue mission. Using a GPS receiver, team members have to find a pilot in the Guam forest, receive new GPS co-ordinates from him, locate the landing zone, and signal for a helicopter to pick them up and bring them back to the naval base.

--Aleenf1 05:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

While two columns looks ok, how would you go about adding in any additional tasks or Fast Forwards? Another column (with both) would be extremely too long, adding another row may make it hard to determine what was done where, if we're keeping this in the race order.

I'm thinking that it's nearly impossible, and maybe not necessarily, to make all the race data into a table. But these steps really need to be done, not just on TAR11, but on all TAR pages:

1. Major trivia trimming. Records, first time occurrences, and endless statistics, while interesting, are basically not encyclopedic. Notes on some events should fall under the leg they occurred on, while the "general/pre-/post-" stuff should be a separate, maybe final section of the article. Where the line is drawn on what is what is still in question, but I think I see where one can make a definite cut (basically, even if it takes the reader work, if they can figure out that a stated event is the first or a record by using all the TAR season articles, then stating that event explicitly could be called trivia.)
2. People should look through List of The Amazing Race statistics and trivia which is being RFD'd, and see if there is anything that is worth keeping and moving into other articles. My assessment, based on the "firsts/records" concept above, is no.
3. We can go back to the previous (well, current) leg format, making sure to bring down leg-specific events into those legs, which is still readable, but just not as clean as it could be. I'm thinking now that a format that combines the location details with the task (if one) immediately afterwards so that it's very easy to find where and what the Detour was for a leg, for example, in a non-table format. (I've got another idea for a layout, I'll make an example later to demonstrate).

--Masem 15:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Masem/TAR11Test2 is an example of another format that I think works; locations are obvious, tasks and what they involve are obvious, and doesn't look like a bullet-point festival.--Masem 16:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Another column can add below, as you said two column, since FF and additional tasks not usually occur, looks good enough for me, it look like this:

Detour

...

Roadblock

...

Additional task

...

Fast Forward

...

--Aleenf1 05:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

One thing to remember is that Wikipedia shouldn't be a substitute for watching to the actual show. (Per WP:PLOT). I think we need to choose which details are extraneous and remove them from all Race articles. --Madchester 16:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Guam is not "South Pacific"

In the final two legs, Phil repeatedly mentions Guam as being in the South Pacific. This is incorrect, since it's north of the equator, it's technically in the North Pacific. Should this goof be pointed out in "In Race" trivia? Peebidj 07:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Given that 1) we're trying to cut down trivia and 2) while technically not South Pacific, it falls near Oceania which is considered part of the South Pacific even with parts of it north of the equator (like South America has as well), it's not worth noting. --Masem 12:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Countries visited

The following comment was posted on Talk:The Amazing Race 10, but I'm moving it here. The question that is posted seemed to have been answered in an above post. I don't know enough of the situation to make my own judgment, but I would go with what has been said above. Tinlinkin 05:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Labeling the destinations of Hong Kong and Macau as "People's Republic of China" and Guam as "United States" distorts the nature of these destinations. Although ultimate sovereignty does indeed lie in Beijing and Washington for these two territories, they are distinctly different than their overseers. All three destinations have a distinctly different system of government and culture than China or the US. Hong Kong has its own Olympic Team, for example, highlighting the fact that although the city is part of China, it is still in many ways separate. Thus, it is most appropriate to list these destinations as Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR, and Guam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.7.35 (talk • contribs)

5 continents or 6

I know the website and Phil mentioned this race being 5 continents long, but isn't it technically 6 with Guam being part of Oceania? Or was it just counted as Asia which it really shouldn't? --4.91.97.67 02:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

TAR has always gone by the standard "7 continent" definition (heck, that's even the one favored by Wikipedia too (see continent)) (NA, SA, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and Antarctica). TAR11, by this definition, visited 5 of those. Also, since this is what CBS is saying, we're not going to deny it; that is, what CBS says supersedes any other "facts" we may propose. --Masem 02:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Move to "All-Stars"

I propose this page be moved from "The Amazing Race 11" to "The Amzaing Race All-Stars." It was advertised as such on CBS, and is noted as such on the official CBS website.[1] --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 02:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

"All-Stars" is just a promotional sub-title for the season. Note that the official CBS site is still sub-linked as "amazing_race11", while the official Amazing Race Wiki also refers to it as Season 11. --Madchester (talk) 03:15, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Poland Episode(s)

So, I'm reading here that, while both Poland legs were 1 episode in the USA, they were two episodes in other countries.

If that's true, then what was the title of the second episode? It should go in the episode Title Quotes Section! Shadow2 (talk) 07:54, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Is 1 episode in USA, so only one title quotes, footnotes already there. --Aleenf1 08:20, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Making The Results Table Smaller

When I read an edit summary for this matter, it says to use a "simple code". Can anyone tell me what it is? 75.89.239.242 (talk) 15:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

style="white-space:nowrap" is simple to no wrap all the table contents. --Aleenf1 04:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Please stop reverting the results table for whoever is doing that. I like it smaller. 98.17.117.187 (talk) 23:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah? Actually you make no difference. AND adding something that nonsense. --Aleenf1 06:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

How about stop reverting it because it will be re-added until it stops being reverted. 75.89.234.25 (talk) 11:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you realise that one nowrap under the opening table mark is enough? You certainly add so many that waste the article size only. --Aleenf1 11:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Eric

SHould their be something in the Cast section about how Eric is the 1st Hispanic contestant to win the race? Shapiros10 (talk) 12:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

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Unaired route marker in Guam

according to http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/interview-ozzy-and-danny-dish-about-the-amazing-race-all-stars-5100.php there eas an unaired route marker at another U.S. Airforce Base in Guam. However, I'm not sure exactly where they're talking about, nor do I know how to cite properly. Can someone incorperate it? Shadow2 (talk) 02:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The Amazing Race 1 which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

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ʻOkina and kahakō

@Bgsu98: As this article covers a season of The Amazing Race that included a segment in Hawaiʻi, this is a "Hawaiʻi-related article" and MOS:HAWAII applies. I'm not sure how it could not apply since several Hawaiian place names are used in this article. Mahalo, Musashi1600 (talk) 11:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I have changed Lanai to Lānaʻi per the link you provided. When "Hawaii" is used in that section, it refers to the state and not the island. Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)