Talk:Mahanagar

Fair use rationale for Image:Mahanagar.jpg

Image:Mahanagar.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mahanagar2.jpg

Image:Mahanagar2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:58, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move(non-admin closure) jcc (tea and biscuits) 11:30, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

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Mahanagar → The Big City (1963 film) – Appears to be the most-used title in the English-speaking world[1][2][3][4][5]. See WP:NCF and WP:EN. Film Fan (talk) 09:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support as I understand it WP:NCF gives DVD covers, particularly Criterion and other art house releasers, priority over printed books. (but please strike IMDB link from move proposal). In ictu oculi (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, having to pull support. Given the weight of sources, printed books probably should going to have to take precedence over DVD covers. But won't oppose either given WP:NCF, in present state. Maybe WP:NCF needs to globalize a bit though, this is the Indian-English wikipedia as well as the American-English one after all. Bobrayner's point about natural disambiguation is an additional factor. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:46, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Natural disambiguation is preferred to parenthetical. More importantly, none of those sources calls it "The Big City (1963 film)". bobrayner (talk) 20:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

What? The title most used in the English-speaking world is what matters - not what is or isn't in brackets. Film Fan (talk) 20:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You're proposing to move it to "The Big City (1963 film)". Sources don't call it "The Big City (1963 film)". Unless you can propose a move to some other name which is actually widely used, Mahanagar seems reasonable enough to me; natural disambiguation is much better than adding our own suffix in order to make a different name. bobrayner (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

What is or isn't in brackets is irrelevant, sir. I am proposing it be moved the title most used in English-speaking countries, per the Wikipedia guidelines, which is THE BIG CITY. Natural disambiguation takes a backseat. Please show me any guideline you think I might be missing. Both WP:NCF and WP:EN support my proposal. Film Fan (talk) 20:47, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You're not proposing a move to THE BIG CITY. You're proposing a move to The Big City (1963 film), so "what is or isn't in brackets" certainly is relevant. No sources call it The Big City (1963 film), so I cannot fathom how that title is supported by WP:EN. bobrayner (talk) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you actually not understand how Wikipedia works or are you playing dumb just to waste time? Film Fan (talk) 22:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

There's no need for personal attacks. bobrayner (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support as nominator. There isn't a single guideline that negates the proposal, and at least two that clearly support it. Plus... common sense. Film Fan (talk) 22:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Have you read our article title policy? In what way do you suppose making up parenthetical disambiguation is preferable to using the existing natural name? bobrayner (talk) 00:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course I have. The article clearly states: "Natural disambiguation: If it exists, choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English," which is not the case here. Natural disambiguation comes into play when the titles are pretty much interchangeable in English sources. Got it? Film Fan (talk) 10:39, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps there has been some confusion. The article's sources currently say things like:

"Mahanagar, which Ray shot in the first half of 1963..."

"in Mahanagar, Arati is not only the central character but a woman..."

There are also ELs like this and this. All call it Mahanagar; all appear to be speaking English. Which language do you believe those sources are speaking? bobrayner (talk) 21:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, there will always be SOME people who prefer to use the original foreign titles for films. Such is the case with that Berlinale page.

Secondly, satyajitray.org is a fansite run by an Indian, and all the titles on that site are listed under their original Indian names.

Neither of those links add anything to the discussion, and there's really nowhere to go with this............ Film Fan 21:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Those are the sources used by the article; english-language sources which call it "Mahanagar". Conversely, no source - in any language - calls it The Big City (1963 film). It's difficult to understand how you could have proposed this move after having looked at sources. bobrayner (talk) 22:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

You like to joke. Film Fan 23:08, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

@Film Fan: In-case you don't know, Indian movies use Taglines in the movie posters Ex: Majanagar (The Big City), Sher (The Lion). In this case movie was released officially (CBFC Certificate) with title "Mahanagar" and its irrelevant what different posters say to spice it up. Nagarjuna198 (talk) 03:31, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:NCF and WP:UE. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 12:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the naming conventions for Indian films. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:52, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • That's not a guideline/policy - it's a talk page. The guideline for foreign films clearly states: "Use the title more commonly recognized by English readers; normally this means the title under which it has been released in cinemas or on video in the English-speaking world. Normally, this will be an English language title that is recognized across the English-speaking world; however, sometimes different English-speaking countries use different titles, in which case use the most common title, and give the native and alternate English title(s) afterward.

Note: in the following paragraphs, the phrase 'the English-speaking world' refers to countries in which the majority of the population speaks English as their first language; it thus includes the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland and New Zealand, as well as several smaller countries. It does not include countries such as India in which English is a common second language, but in which films are rarely produced in English." Film Fan 20:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

That was agreed for Indian film titles. I suggest raising a wider discussion at WT:FILM. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 07:25, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

• An editor feels this/this part of discussion is a WikiProject India related topic and is requesting to either consider moving this discussion to WikiProject India Noticeboard or inform the noticeboard about it. --Tito Dutta (contact) 07:58, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I am not sure if it is clear-cut that The Big City is more commonly used in English-language reliable sources than Mahanagar. I looked through Google Books, and many results when searching for "The Big City" shows that title in parentheses, often "Mahanagar (The Big City)". See this for what I mean. In addition, when searching WorldCat.org, this is a 2010 book from University of California Press that has Mahanagar as the film's title in one of the chapters. However, The Criterion Collection's use of The Big City is a point in that title's favor in terms of retrospective use. It also appears that TV Guide uses The Big City, so that title may be familiar to English-language TV watchers in the United States at least. Erik (talk | contribs) 02:06, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: This is a Bengali film, and the title should be in Bengali. In Wikipedia they call Apur Sansar The World of Apu. About English language sources, see Andrew Robinson, Marie Seton etc!
  Also note: there are other English titles of the film too, in Sibaji Bandopadhyay's book, the film is called "Metropolis", the same title can be found in K. Gokulsing, Wimal Dissayanake's book, also in Keya Ganguly's book and NDTV.
  The current title is perfect!--Tito Dutta (contact) 14:15, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

"etc" is no good. The most widely used title in the English-speaking world is "The Big City". Just like The World of Apu. What makes you think it should be in Bengali? Have you not seen WP:EN and WP:NCF? Film Fan 19:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Marie Seton and W. Andrew Robinson both were internationally recognized authors — and both from English speaking countries. In case someone knows the importance of Seton's works on Ray, they understand "etc" is not required after these are referred! Anyway...
  Can you show that the film released under that title "The Big City" outside India? Berlin Festival's website shows they awarded Mahanagar in 1964! --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:37, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: Why should a Bengali film be titled in English? world cat refers to it as "Mahanagar". Mahanagar 1963 movie certificate calls it "Mahanagar" (also greater number of google hits). "The Big City (1963 film)" is not at all the most-used or suitable title is it gets LEAST number of google hits also (Even if it does get more hits, its not valid). Nagarjuna198 02:24, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

• @Film Fan: What is your vested interest in changing an Indian Film Title to an English Title which is a different language :-)? Nagarjuna198 02:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

They want to move per WP:NCF. The policy is alright, but, not applicable here since it is not clear that a) the film released under that English title in 1960s, Russian website shows it was "Mahanagar" b) few more RS call the film "Metropolis"! "The Big City" might be an accepted English title of the film, but, it seems that's not the only one. --Tito Dutta (contact) 03:08, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it was released under English Title as per Mahanagar 1963 movie certificateNagarjuna198 03:18, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

You are not understanding their point (please read WP:NCF first) and poor referencing! That YouTube video is a copy of the Bengali version of the film, proving nothing, since there is no confusion that the film had Bengali releases! --Tito Dutta (contact) 03:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.