Talk:The Grateful Dead Movie

To Merge or Not to Merge -- the Soundtrack Article

I think it would be better to leave The Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack as a separate article. A lot of albums by the Dead or by other major bands have their own separate article. Obviously this one's closely associated with the movie, but that doesn't mean it should be merged. The Soundtrack article is not that short, and it could be made longer if someone wanted to expand it. Also, the list of tracks is way different (i.e. longer) than the list of songs that are in the movie. So, the Soundtrack stands on its own as a separate article. Meanwhile, the article about The Grateful Dead Movie is just a starter article. There's a lot more that can be said about the movie, and a lot of sources that can be referenced. If you look at that Crutchfield Advisor article in the external links, that'll give you some idea of what the Movie article potentially could be like. In other words, the Movie article should be expanded and improved, but with the main focus being on the movie itself, not the DVD or the CD. So, I'm thinking separate articles is the way to go. -- Mudwater 14:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, that makes sense. I just thought I'd propose the merge because maybe one longer article is preferable to two scant ones with repetition. Interestingly there is a proposal right now to split up Rattle and Hum into two seperate articles -- in that case the album is (I think) better known than the film (although it is shorter and contains fewer songs).Spebudmak 01:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Since no one else has said anything about this, I'm going to go ahead and remove the merge suggestion from the articles. -- Mudwater 23:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Cast section

A cast section should be added to this article. --Nehrams2020 03:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've added a cast section. -- Mudwater 03:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Song List and DVD version

I have not seen the original movie, but own the DVD edition, which has a more extensive song list than the one currently in the article. Should this be added to the article or should there be a separate article about the DVD like there is for the CD soundtrack? Here is the songlist from the booklet accompanying the DVD:

Song List (Disc 1)

U.S. Blues
One More Saturday Night
Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad
Truckin'
Eyes Of The World
Sugar Magnolia
Playing In The Band
Stella Blue
Casey Jones
He's Gone
Morning Dew
Johnny B. Goode
It Must Have Been The Roses

Bonus Songs (Disc 2)

Uncle John's Band
Sugaree
The Other One > Spanish Jam >
Mind Left Body Jam >
The Other One
Scarlet Begonias
China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider
Dark Star
Weather Report Suite

In addition to these songs there are other songs played partially during scenes not from the concerts, like St. Stephen, Ripple and Golden Road To Unlimited Devotion
Weedar 07:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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The content of the first disc of the DVD is exactly the same as the theatrical release of the movie. The track list above for the first disc is the same as the one currently in the article, except that it also has "It Must Have Been the Roses" at the end. As you probably noticed, that's the closing title music, which was not recorded at the October 1974 Winterland shows, but is from the Jerry Garcia album Reflections.

In my opinion it would be fine to mention the "Roses" closing title song, and also the other non-concert songs, parts of which are played during the movie, as you say. If those are added to the article though it should somehow be clear which songs are from the concerts, which is the closing title music, and which have only short sections played. I also think it would be fine to list the DVD "bonus material" songs. I'm thinking that those could be added to the existing section about the DVD.

Creating a new article about the DVD itself might be going too far. The Soundtrack album has its own article because (1) it has way, way more material than the movie, and (2) albums for major, popular groups like the Dead are all notable enough to have their own articles. (See "To merge or not to merge" above.) I'm thinking that the DVD can be covered in the main movie article, so I'm voting against having a separate article for that, especially if it's just to list the extra songs. On the other hand, it would be possible to write a fairly substantial article about the DVD itself, with a lot of technical details about how it was created, so, at the risk of waffling, I wouldn't be totally opposed to it either.

The more people who join in this discussion the better. More opinions make it easier to form a consensus. -- Mudwater 11:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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I agree with your comment, especially about specifying which songs are complete and which are from the concerts

and which are not. As I just watched the DVD again today I recall "Roses" at the end of the main movie, it would be nice to list what sources the non-concert songs are from, for example it sounds like the "Golden Road" is the album version. Also, your point about not creating a separate article for the DVD is valid, at least until we've assembled enough information to really warrant a separate article. There is alot of information in the interviews at The saga of The Grateful Dead Movie that would be interesting for a future article about the DVD release. Unless someone else disagrees I'll add the DVD song list to the main article within a month. Weedar 00:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the closing titles for the movie, you'll see a list of all the songs in the film. If you take out the songs from the concert and the closing title song — in other words, take out the ones in "Song List (Disc 1)" above — you'll have a list of the "incidental" songs, parts of which are played during the movie. I just did that and came up with this list: "Late for Supper", "Eep Hour", "The Wheel", "St. Stephen", "Ripple", "The Golden Road", and "Beat It On Down the Line". (As far as I can tell, they're all versions from Grateful Dead or Jerry Garcia albums.) -- Mudwater 02:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

"The Golden Road" and "Beat It On Down the Line" is from their first self-titled album, "Ripple" is from American Beauty, "St.Stephen" is from Live/Dead I think (or is it the Aoxomoxoa-version?), while "Late for Supper" and "Eep Hour" is from Garcia's "Garcia"-album from 1972. I have no idea where "The Wheel" is from, though I suppose it is also on the Garcia-album. I'll add these (and the bonus songs) to the article if noone else has a good reason not to. Weedar 08:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

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I think we should either leave the studio songs out altogether (the existing list was incomplete) or put them in a separate section. The list is of the concert footage only. Drbeechwood (talk) 16:31, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

WP:FILMS B-class assessment request response

After looking over the article, I believe that it should remain as Start class for the time being. The article needs more sources for the statements throughout the article, and would benefit from more expansion if possible. Although it doesn't have to have a plot summary similar to a film, it still should have a basic description of the details in the documentary. Try to incorporate the details from the sources at the bottom into the article and take a look at the Start to B-class template within the film banner above (click on "Show" from the "Improving this article"). Once you have addressed the suggestions there, let me know and I'll take another look. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 21:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. "P.S." You tagged the infobox DVD image with the "non-free reduce" template. Is there a suggested maximum size for DVD images in infoboxes? — Mudwater ^(Talk) 21:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

One of the dimensions should have a maximum size of 300px, see here. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 22:25, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Good, thanks for the info. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I've replaced the DVD cover image with a smaller one that meets the size criteria. Thanks again for your help. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Which songs are from which show?

I have added the correct info on what songs are from what shows. The information previously listed was incomplete and, in a couple of places, incorrect. The info was confirmed by David Lemieux, the Dead's Archivist, and additional info was included based on the DVD commentary by the film's editors. --Dr. Beechwood. 23 July 2015

Good question. In general, how do we know which songs are from which night? Often deaddisc.com has good information about stuff like that, but they don't in this case. Original video release, Extended DVD release. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:55, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I could not find any online resource for determining which songs are from which night, so I used the DVD and the setlists to figure it out. I could add the information to the Talk page if it would be useful. The biggest clues come from Bob Weir's clothing, which varied from night to night. Also some songs are distinctive: Johnny B. Goode was played on 10/16 and 10/20, but the 10/20 performance has Mickey Hart, who is shown in the movie on that song. Thus, we know that the song is from 10/20 and we also know what Bob Weir is wearing that night. I can include a chart with the evidence in the talk page (?) or someplace else?192.67.133.200 (talk) 16:16, 6 November 2015 (UTC)Drbeechwood (talk) 16:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I made a key to the songs that identify which show each song is from. Note that the extra songs on the DVD disc 2 are labeled in the credits. Should this go into the main article?

Key, based on clothing Jerry Garcia wears a black T-shirt and jeans for all five shows. Bob Weir has a tucked in white shirt on 10/16/74; blue shirt on 10/17/74; white shirt with loose sleeves on 10/18/74; white shirt with a loose collar on 10/19/74; and a long-sleeve white shirt on 10/20/74. Bill Kreutzmann has a dark shirt on 10/16/74; a blue shirt with short sleeves on 10/17/74; a long-sleeve blue shirt on 10/18/74; a gray shirt on 10/19/74; and a blue T-shirt on 10/20/74. Phil Lesh has a pale blue T-shirt on 10/16/74; a white T-shirt on 10/17/74; a pale blue T-shirt on 10/18/74; an orange or rust-colored T-shirt on 10/19/74; and a white T-shirt with a design on it on 10/20/74. Donna Godchaux has a red shirt on 10/16/74; she's not shown on 10/17/74; a Skull and Roses tank top on 10/18/74 and 10/19/74, and a white tank top on 10/20/74. Keith Godchaux has a gray shirt on 10/16/74 and 10/17/74; a gray shirt with blue shoulders on 10/18/74 and 10/19/74; and a dark blue long-sleeve shirt on 10/20/74.

Mickey Hart plays on 10/20/74. Ned Lagin is shown during Morning Dew and Dark Star on 10/18/74 and during Johnny B. Goode on 10/20/74.

Songs From Each Show 10/16/74: Playing in the Band. Identified based on the clothing choices of Donna, Bobby, and Keith that they only wore this day. Also noted by David Lemieux in this interview. 10/17/74: Casey Jones, China Cat Sunflower-I Know You Rider, He's Gone jam, The Other One, Stella Blue, Sugar Magnolia. Identified based on the bonus disc and Bobby's blue shirt. 10/18/74: Dark Star, Morning Dew, and Sugaree were only played on that day. Also Goin' Down the Road Feelin' Bad, Weather Report Suite, and U.S. Blues (closeups). Billy has a long blue sleeve shirt and Bobby has a white shirt with loose sleeves. 10/19/74: U.S. Blues (band shots), Uncle John's Band, Scarlet Begonias, Eyes of the World, One More Saturday Night, Sunshine Daydream, Truckin’. Bobby's shirt has a floppy collar, Billy has a gray shirt, and Phil has a rusty orange shirt. 10/20/74: Johnny B. Goode. Only show with Hart. Billy has a blue T-shirt, Donna has a white tank top.

Interesting facts: U.S. Blues uses footage from both 10/18/74 (the closeups) and 10/19/74 (the band shots). Look for Phil's shirt changing color from white to rust colored. Supposedly the audio is from 10/18/74, based on the DVD commentary. Sugar Magnolia is from 10/17/74, but the Sunshine Daydream that typically accompanies it is from 10/19/74. Look for Bobby's shirt changing from blue to white. The Sage and Spirit is likely from 10/16/74 based on Bobby's shirt. Phil's demonstration of the bass and the feedback from the camera is also likely from this day (or the day before?), based on the fact that they are tuning the piano and setting up the Wall of Sound for the first time. There is a woman dancing in front of Keith's piano for several songs during 10/19/74. Greg, the shirtless pony-tailed guy with denim overalls, is on the rail during 10/19/74.Drbeechwood (talk) 20:11, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

@Drbeechwood: Thanks! — Mudwater ^(Talk) 18:20, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Multiple issues?

@Chrisnait: Hello. About the percieved multiple issues: (1) Could you please specify here which sources may not be reliable, and why? They all look good to me, except maybe the Nedbase one, which is a blog (but still appropriate to include here, I believe). (2) In my opinion, tagging this with both {{More footnotes}} and {{No footnotes}} is overkill. It seems to me that the first of the two -- "This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations." -- is the appropriate one here. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:17, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I only meant to put More footnotes and Unreliable sources, but I guess I pressed the No footnotes option by accident. The page was tagged for having unreliable sources because the article used some sources that weren't very good, such as IMDb, Nedbase, and The Best of Website. About the more footnotes, some sources had footnotes, but some didn't. Chrisnait (talk | contribs) 23:22, 12 June 2020 (UTC)