Talk:Theory of musical equilibration

scientific validity

The topic of this entry lies within the academic discipline known as music psychology. Since the idea or theory itself is not published in the leading journals of that discipline (see wikipedia “music psychology”) perhaps this page should be identified as too misleading or speculative for wikipedia and then deleted? 103.94.181.87 (talk) 13:50, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I would like to add a link to the discussion in German wikipedia about this theory. The German article was deleted in the end, because it was seen as not relevant and as trying to establish a theory, instead of discussing one that is already established. The same might be true for this English article.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:L%C3%B6schpr%C3%BCfung/Archiv/2015/Woche_20#Strebetendenz-Theorie_(erl.)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fragen_zur_Wikipedia/Archiv/2019/Woche_34#Artikel_%22Strebetendenz-Thzeorie%22_(erl.)

I myself don't see the relevance and also find it very misleading, that it has a wp-page. It suggests a relevance, that is not there.

@Bernd Willimek (as I assume you are reading this): If you are interested in honest feedback about your theory, you can get in touch with me. ElljottJade (talk) 06:26, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Richard Parncutt, one of the world's most renowned music psychologists, exclusively references the article "Feelings which Strike a Chord, and Chords which Strike a Feeling" in his latest work, "Psychoacoustic Foundations of Major-Minor Tonality (2024)" (p. 307), in the context of diminished, augmented, and whole-tone chords. This article discusses the description of musical harmonies based on the theory of musical equilibration.

The article "Theory of Musical Equilibration" was reviewed and deemed relevant for Wikipedia over three years ago.

The renowned Berlin-Brandenburg Academy of Sciences and Humanities has recently added the term "Strebetendenz-Theorie" to the digital dictionary of the German language. https://www.dwds.de/wb/Strebetendenz-Theorie

Moreover, the theory was presented in a peer-reviewed publication in the internationally renowned academic publisher Taylor & Francis last year (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epub/10.1080/25742442.2023.2185064).

The theory is now mentioned in numerous scientific works, as evidenced by a Google Scholar search for "theory of musical equilibration" and "Strebetendenz-Theorie". There are also many other scientific citations that are not yet indexed in Google Scholar.

It is incorrect to claim that there are many other theories regarding the emotional impact of musical harmonies. Apart from the theory of musical equilibration, there is worldwide not a single one. The world-renowned music psychologists Gabrielsson and Lindström (2012, p. 393) confirmed this in their work "The Role of Structure in the Musical Expression of Emotions remained valid": "... there is practically nothing on how different kinds of chords...may affect expression." https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199230143.003.0014 (2012). 2A02:8071:3483:6D80:C8D7:860A:DCF4:B757 (talk) 15:52, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

I did not say anything about existing theories on music, harmonies and emotion. Therefore I do not know what your last statemant aims at. I don't see why a huge or small number of such theories should be relevant for the relevance of this article. Relevant is whether this theory is relevant.

[But as you claim there are none: Would you regard Tagg's work on musemes or Meyer's on expectated progressions and related feelings of (in-)security as not theoretical enough or as not related to harmonies (which both discuss in length)? Or the theoretical hypothesis of Tia de Nora, that music becomes a resource, that we can latch on in an embodied way? Also, there is Ernst Kurth himself, whose work is quoted as a source for Strebetendenztheorie, and there where several musicological phenomenologist of the 20s who based their work on Kurths? Although you might not agree with them, their work still exists.]

Still I believe that strebetendenztheorie is a very interesting approach. The most interesting potential is, that it relates the listeners and the sounds on a different level as is normally done, when identification and will instead of emotions are introduced as relevant terms. But because of this very interesting potential, I am quite sad about the theoretical shortcomings: For example, in all papers on Strebetendenztheorie, that I know (please point me to others, if I am overlooking something, because I would really be interested!), there is no discussion of the question of what is meant by "will" or "identification" or "empathy". Although these terms are strongly debated in academic contexts.

Further: the authors quote Nietsche or Schopenhauer, without giving a context, that explains how the words, those authors use, would have been understood in their historical context or embeding their statements in their theoretical framework, and then the Willimeks still take this as evidence for their theory...

Then: I see no way of proving this theory without cognitive research (which further would need a clear definition of will or identification etc. as a basis). The rocky or the basic test can be used just as much as a prove for Tagg's musemes, which give a totaly different reason for the emotional content of music. It's just another evidence that certain intervals are related to certain emotional contents. But it does not say anything about how emotions and music are linked.

Still, that there is no prove, is not a reason against this theory, as theories are theories and not facts.

But this is not the place to discuss, whether this theory is valid, or interesting (I believe that it is interesting and has explanatory potential), but wether it is relevant/noteable for wikipedia.

Considering the quotations of the works of the Willimek-couple, that you mention, it needs to be checked, whether in these quotes the theory is quoted as theory. Only if the theory is treated as relevant in those other books it would be relevant.

What I mean by this can be demonstrated with the quotation by Richard Parncutt in which this does not seem to be true: (here quoted in context, on page 307 and 308)

"The idea of tonality as prolongation of the tonic triad is relevant here. The emotional difference between major and minor modes may stem from a difference in the clarity (or its opposite, ambiguity) of the roots of major and minor triads, and consequently of reference pitches or tonics when passages of music are perceived as prolongations of major or minor triads (Parncutt 2014). The emotional implications of the tonic triad may be amplified when the chord is prolonged.

Chords that divide the octave equally (augmented triad, diminished 7th) do not have clear roots (are harmonically ambiguous) and are perceived as musically tense (Lahdelma and Eerola 2016). Prolongations of such chords (to the extent they can be psychologically prolonged) would amplify the tension. Passages based on diminished triads may evoke fear or despair, while augmented or whole-tone passages may evoke a feeling of amazement, mystery, or weightlessness (cf. Willimek and Willimek 2017)

Scales in minor tonalities are linked to negative emotion. There is no widely accepted reason for the connection, but the question is perhaps simpler than we think. Positive emotions tend to mean that things are OK or normal, whereas negative emotions mean the opposite"

Not only is the Strebetendenztheorie not mentioned at all, even the context contradicts it without seemingly realizing. This suggests, that Parncutt, who obviously works with a completely different model, may not even know about that theory in detail ... He probably just needed a source to quote the relation between augmented triads and amazement. Therefore this is not a source that proves the relevance of this topic at all.

http://ialsp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Chapter-5-Music-therapy-single-spaced-with-abstract.pdf

This points to another paper quoted on the main page and another example of a quotation of the text of the Willimeks, which does not prove the relevance of the theory:

While this time at least the theory is named, the authors from music therapy do not use or even discuss it. Again the text of the Willimeks seems to be only quoted as a handy source for the connection of certain emotions with certain chords.

Therefore it might be worth checking the other mentioned sources on the main page. I this far checked two sources and both I believe didn't generate relevance. I will not further invest my time on this.

But: It is a shame, especially for the really interesting idea of this theory. ElljottJade (talk) 21:44, 11 October 2024 (UTC)