Talk:Thomas Leyland

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Slavers bringing captives on board a slave ship

• ... that Thomas Leyland won the lottery, enslaved 22,365 Africans, became Lord Mayor of Liverpool, argued in favour of slavery and died one of the richest men in England? (pictured, a slave ship)
  • Source1: this ref says “In 1766 he won a lottery prize, which he used to build up his business affairs” and “delivered 22,365 Africans” and “one of the wealthiest”. Source 2, Gomer Williams on page 617 writes: “during the mayoralty of Thomas Leyland, the Liverpool Corporation petitioned the House of Commons against a bill to prohibit the trading of slaves”

• • ALT1... that Thomas Leyland won a lottery, transported 22,365 enslaved Africans, became Lord Mayor of Liverpool, argued in favour of slavery and died one of the richest men in England? (pictured, a slave ship)

• • Alt2 ... that the slave trader, Thomas Leyland, won a lottery, transported 22,365 enslaved Africans and became Lord Mayor of Liverpool? (pictured, a slave ship)

Created by Desertarun (talk). Self-nominated at 20:45, 16 June 2021 (UTC).

• - Unless Leyland was involved in some highly unusual practices, use of the word enslaved in the hook and the article is erroneous. Enslaved means to make a slave and it is much more likely these people were already slaves that Leyland purchased. I can't find a single source that says he enslaved anyone, only that he transported slaves. For the same reasons, using 'kidnapping' is also possibly incorrect. --Ykraps (talk) 07:08, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

• I take your point. The slavers had African agents who they would write to and place orders for enslaved people, so he most certainly did enslave people. What proportion of those 22,365 people that he personally ordered enslaved would be impossible to separate from those he bought at other times, so I will reword the article and offer Alts here. Desertarun (talk) 07:51, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

• @Desertarun: I would argue that even in those cases, use of the verb enslaved is inaccurate. However, I see no reason to dwell on that. Perhaps changing the hook to "...transported 22,365 slaves...", would be acceptable? --Ykraps (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
• Article doesn't seem to be completely ineligible, so using less alarming icon to indicate its current status. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:54, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

As I understand it, something is either eligible or it isn't. That icon therefore seemed appropriate. If anyone's been alarmed, I apologise. --Ykraps (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

• New reviewer requested. I've updated the article and added Alt1 but the other elements of the DYK were not done.Desertarun (talk) 06:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

  In all other respects, this is good to go: Created on 16 June as stated, at least 1500 characters of prose, hook is correctly formatted, accurate and cited in article. --Ykraps (talk) 09:10, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

  Thank you! :) Desertarun (talk) 09:42, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

• Came to promote...Desertarun, where in the article does it say Leyland argued in favor of slavery with a citation for that? I see it in the lead without a citation, and then in the Lord Mayor of Liverpool section I see "during the mayoralty of Leyland, Liverpool council submitted objections to the UK government's early anti-slavery legislation" with a source at the following sentence ("Their petition described the bill as "impracticable in parts, injurious, partial, and oppressive") that I assume is for both sentences (although it helps to put the source directly on the hook assertion sentence.) But even if that source is added to that sentence, I don't see that sentence supporting the assertion that Leyland argued for slavery? —valereee (talk) 14:40, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

• @Valereee: Hi Valereee, I've updated the article and added Alt2. Desertarun (talk) 14:54, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Another ship article to include?

Hi Desertarun, thanks for another interesting article. Lottery win of £20,000 - crikey that's a lot of dosh! I came across an article for a third Enterprise(ize) - Enterprize (1803 ship) you might add. JennyOz (talk) 10:35, 20 July 2021 (UTC)