Talk:Titiou Lecoq

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen talk 02:49, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

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Titiou Lecoq

• ... that according to Titiou Lecoq (pictured), femicides are committed "by men who kill women because they believe they should belong to them"?

Source: https://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2019/01/03/meurtres-conjugaux-plus-de-200-femmes-tuees-en-deux-ans-selon-le-recensement-de-liberation_5404787_1653578.html

• ALT 1:... that Titiou Lecoq (pictured) only realized that "women did not rule the universe" after she left her home?

Source: https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/titiou-lecoq-rire-revolution

• ALT 2:... that Titiou Lecoq (pictured) was called by Le Monde a representative of "the feminist galaxy of 2017"?

Source: https://www.lemonde.fr/m-moyen-format/article/2017/12/26/la-galaxie-feministe-qui-a-marque-2017_5234433_4497271.html

• Reviewed: Papua New Guinean art

Created by Munfarid1 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 21 past nominations.

Munfarid1 (talk) 19:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC).

• Article new enough (July 14), long enough (5100 B), looks well-sourced. ALT0 and ALT1 are verified in the sources. I think ALT2 is iffy because it's citing Le Monde about a quote from itself. Approving ALT0 and ALT1. I like ALT1 better. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 05:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Translation of the title of the book: Les Morues

The word morue, in French, does indeed signify cod. But it also a slang word for prostitute, perhaps best translated as slut. The book's summary on Amazon, as well as its cover, strongly suggest that cods are not the book's prime subject. Should the title's translation be changed, and if so, how? Falw (talk) 03:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup for your pertinent suggestion. I have just changed this sentence as follows: "In 2007, she began writing her first novel, Les Morues, in French colloquial language The Sluts." - I agree that this corresponds much better to the meaning of the title. Munfarid1 (talk) 10:49, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Fatal aspect

...she highlighted the fatal aspects of such femicides.

What does that mean? -cide means killing/murder which implies that its fatal, right?

Should it be something like risk factors/common elements/warning signs?

Not a native speaker. Polygnotus (talk) 11:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Hm, it was criminal aspect before, and of course killing is criminal.

Translated from Au cours de son travail de journaliste, elle met en relief l'aspect criminel du féminicide : selon elle, il n'est en général pas dû à un homme qui taperait trop fort, mais il est dû à un homme qui veut tuer, et tape dans ce but.

In her work as a journalist, she highlights the criminal aspect of femicide: according to her, it is generally not due to a man who hits too hard, but rather to a man who intends to kill, and strikes with that purpose.

Because this context was lost the sentence becomes unclear/incomplete.

@Munfarid1: What do you think? Polygnotus (talk) 11:31, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. I have just substituted "criminal" for "fatal". Munfarid1 (talk) 12:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

That does not fix the problem. She highlighted not the criminal or fatal aspects. She highlighted "il n'est en général pas dû à un homme qui taperait trop fort, mais il est dû à un homme qui veut tuer, et tape dans ce but" (it is generally not due to a man who hits too hard, but rather to a man who intends to kill, and strikes with that purpose). In other words, she highlighted that, in her view, these killing were intentional and not an accident.

Also this sentence (about domestic violence) should probably be rewritten or scrapped: "The consequences, even when they do not always lead to murder, are catastrophic for the woman, who is the direct victim, and for children, who are sometimes killed, too.". Polygnotus (talk) 11:44, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't really understand why this should be scrapped. It does mention two more serious consequences that Lecoq stressed. - If you can rewrite it for more clarity, tough, please go ahead. Munfarid1 (talk) 12:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

It is unclear what (domestic violence/patriarchal attitudes/something else?) leads to the consequences described. Do the consequences (of domestic violence/patriarchal attitudes/something else?) lead to murder or does (domestic violence/patriarchal attitudes/something else?). And it is trying to say way too much in one sentence. Polygnotus (talk) 13:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

The French article is more clear: Titiou Lecoq milite pour une reconnaissance de ces assassinats (au sens propre, homicide volontaire (meurtre) avec préméditation) à l'échelle de la société : leurs racines se trouvent dans nos conceptions patriarcales, ces violences ont souvent un caractère banal, connu, habituel, social presque, mais leurs conséquences, même lorsqu'elles n'aboutissent pas à un meurtre, sont lourdes pour la femme victime directe, et pour les enfants, quelquefois tués eux aussi.

Which means something like:

Titiou Lecoq advocates for recognition of these assassinations (in the literal sense, premeditated voluntary homicide (murder)) on a societal scale: their roots lie in our patriarchal conceptions, these acts of violence often have a banal, known, habitual, almost social character, but their consequences, even when they do not result in murder, are severe for the woman who is the direct victim, and for the children, who are sometimes killed as well.

Polygnotus (talk) 13:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for your close reading and suggestions for a better paraphrase of her arguments. - I have subsituted "criminal" for "intentional" and incorporated this sentence: "Lecoq said these assassinations should be seen as premeditated murder and never be excused as mere "crimes of passion". As their roots lie in patriarchal attitudes, these acts of violence are often merely seen as acts of an almost common nature. Further, their consequences, even when they do not always result in murder, are severe for the woman, who is the direct victim, and for the children, who are sometimes killed as well." - I think, this has made this section much clearer. Munfarid1 (talk) 14:28, 27 August 2024 (UTC)