Talk:Toast (honor)

Toasts of Caucasus Peoples

I hope I didn't offend the writer of this section, but I removed the excessive exclamation marks in the toast. Pied beauty 16:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Origins

This article doesn't mention the origins of this practice. I think it would be a very interesting addition. Blaise Joshua 14:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Smallville claims that the origin was from a king (or something of the like) who feared his drink had been poisoned and so proposed a toast to ensure that his drink would spill into the other cups. I came here to see if it was true.

Also, how about toasting in various cultures? I recently spent a night out with some Chinese guys, they taught me the phrase "gen bai", which means "dry glass". Not sure if it's a toast as such, but it does involving raise glasses, shouting and downing your drink.

I think it was the vikings who toasted to ensure that their drink wasn't poisoned. I dunno where I've heard it though. κаллэмакс 17:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The article now contains the assertion that "The practice of toasting originated in Ancient Greece, at a time when fear of poisoning was a significant concern." Any chance of getting a source for that? --82.41.47.150 14:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's one. Perhaps not the most authoritative source, but it's a start. Hashashin 14:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Americans

The article says that American rarely toast. I disagree. Is there a source anyone could find for this? Jmlk17 07:19, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Same from my side, I quite disagree with the sort of statement made there, it is a generalisation of what situation might occur not of what actually is. The four guys on the photo would quite picture pretty well the party 'toasting' mood. And most of the claims that would be canadian/american are actually encountered pretty much everywhere in the world. Maplefanta (talk) 01:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm just going to go ahead and remove the OP of that section, it someone can verify it they can put it back. BaldurtheGreat 01:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BaldurtheGreat (talk • contribs)

Was it thought that the 'secondary toast' is not a toast at all? It fits the heading in that it 'honours'. This section was removed, but I think that it is certainly a legitimate toast (and is shown in literature as well). 76.19.119.93 (talk) 19:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

international

Please, if feasible, more info. on these translations, on cin cin cin, et cetera.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 04:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Reference to 'magestic greeting'

This majestic greeting was all but unheard in North America until it was popularized by the film Crocodile Dundee and Foster's Lager. Many people mistakenly think the exclamation is British in origin, when in fact it truly arrived from down under.'

Which 'majestic greeting' is that?

Viking skull cups

* "Skål", in English often spelled "skol," (Denmark, Norway, Sweden and parts of Finland,
derives from the ancient viking habit of drinking mead out of the enemy's skull.)

I removed the part about Vikings drinking out of their enemies' skulls; this is widely considered to be the stuff of myth (much like Vikings having horned helmets), so it doesn't belong in the article unless some citation can be presented. Furthermore, the wording is misleading, as it may suggest to people who don't speak Scandinavian that 'Skål' is Danish/Swedish/Norwegian for skull, when in fact the word's modern meaning - and the meaning of the Icelandic 'skál' - is "bowl" (the word is etymologically connected to the word 'skal', which means 'shell' [1]), and supposedly the word is meant to encourage people to empty a bowl in somebody's name. --TheFinalFraek (talk) 14:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• English wiktionary (where English and foreign-language words are discussed in English), makes clear that skál has a similar meaning in Icelandic and Faroese to those of skål in Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian. In Finnish (IIRC per both its Wiktionary and its Wikipedia) there seems to be no sk?l word with this sense. The good-faith conflation of the two spellings is easy to imagine. Good faith inclusion of Finnish is a little more complicated: "German" and "Scandinavian" are unlike each other, in that

  essentially all of Germany uses German, but so do some other regions, while

  essentially only Scandinavia uses Scandinavian languages, but one of its regions uses a non-Scandinavian language!

Finnish is not a Scandinavian language (i.e., a North-Germanic one), nor even an Indo-European one; it is most closely related, among the languages used in Europe, to Hungarian, and both of them are related, IIRC, to languages presumably native to northeastern Siberia.

Now, the Scandinavian (esp. Swedish and Finnish) cultures are enuf related that it would be hasty to rule out noticeable (tho not necessarily notable) use of a skoal-like word in Finnish, but we'd need to know its spelling, and consider the notability issue. For now, i'm removing the mention of Finnish toasting words.
--Jerzy•t 00:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

While skål is not a native Finnish word, Finnish has borrowed it as "skool". And there is a verb "skoolata" which means "to toast". --ABehrens (talk) 02:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Finnish is not related to languages of northeastern Siberia, which are mostly Turkic and Tungusic. Finnish is related to Finnic and Uralic languages, which are mostly in northeastern Europe and western Siberia. Generally north, and north western areas of Russia. Ladoga~enwiki (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I re-added it in a shortened version, without the reference to vikings or skulls ("skål" simply means "bowl"). SAOB confirms this origin of the use of the word in Swedish (the referenced excerpt from SAOB is unfortunately in Swedish), and if anyone can be considered an authority on the subject, it's them. While there may not be a similar word in Finnish, the word is used in the Swedish speaking parts of Finland, and so the blanket location of "Scandinavia" is not inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alltat (talk • contribs) 07:56, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

References

Chin chin

This toast is used in French as well. 80.202.37.179 (talk) 12:45, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Gsundheit

I went to German wiktionary, and searched "Gsundheit", from the (poorly named!) "Worldwide" section, producing

Meintest du „Gesundheit“?

which in English is "Did you mean "Gesundheit"? I'm fixing it in the accompanying article.
--Jerzy•t 00:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

No longer a "multiple issue" article

I want to remove the template from the article saying that it doesn't cite any sources, since it now cites several. But I can't figure out what the template is for the prose issue alone. I tried just removing the citation part from the multiple issue template, but it looked weird to have a headline of "multiple issues" when there only was one issue listed. Someone with better knowledge of WP templates than me should fix this. Bobber0001 (talk) 10:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Sources for international toasts

Some of these are common knowledge in the English-speaking world, many of them not at all so. Each one really needs validation with WP:RS DavidOaks (talk) 22:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure many of these are legit, but in the past, some ringers have been brought in -- w/o WP:RS, how can anyone tell the difference? It's been tagged for long enough; here's the list as it stood before deletion -- items should not be restored without individual sourcing.

• "Aish karo" (Enjoy),(India)..
• "Balle", "Chak De" (India)
• "Аз жаргал хүсье" (Wish you happiness), (Mongolia)
• "Будем здоровы" (To health) (Russia)
• "Будьмо" (abbreviation for "Будьмо здорові" - "To our health") (Ukraine)
• "Ваше здоровье" (To your health) (Russia)
• "Bula" (Cheers, Greetings), (Fiji Islands)
• "بصحتك" (To health) (Arabic, Arab World)
• "Kessak" (Cheers) (Lebanon)
• "سلامتی"(Salahmatie) or "به سلامتی"(Be salahmatie) or "سلام"(Salahm) (To good health) (Persian , Iran)
• "Bottoms Up" (United Kingdom)
• "Cheers" (Thank you) (United Kingdom, Ireland, United States, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, and Canada)
• "Chin Chin" (The sound made by the cups) (Argentina, United Kingdom, France, French Canada and Portugal)
• "ดื่ม (Duem)" (Drink) (Thailand)
• "Chúc Sức Khoẻ" (Live long and prosper) (Vietnam)
• "Ձեր կենացը՜" (For your health) (Armenia)
• "Egészségedre" (To your good health) (Hungary)
• "干杯，乾杯 （Gan Bei）" (Empty the cup/glass) (China)
• "გაუმარჯოს" (To victory) (Georgia)
• "Γειά μας" ("Yia mas", meaning "to our health") (Greece)
• "건배" (Geonbae) or "위하여" (Wihayeo) (Korea)
• "Gesondheid" (Health) (South African Afrikaans)
• "Iechyd Da" (Wales)
• "Į sveikatą" (To health) (Lithuania)
• "乾杯" (かんぱい) (Kanpai) (Japan)
• "Kippis" (Finland)
• "לחיים" (L'Chayim) (To life) (Hebrew, Israel)
• "Letenachin" (Ethiopia)
• "Here's mud in your eye" (United States)
• "Наздраве" (To good health) (Bulgaria)
• "На здравје" (To good health) (Republic of Macedonia)
• "Mabuhay!" (Long live!) or "Kampay" (borrowed term from 乾杯; Japanese kanpai and Chinese gunbei) (Philippines)
• "Maisha Merefu" (To good life) ([Kenya])
• Mot Hai Ba Yo! 1, 2, 3, Cheers -Vietnam
• "Na zdraví" (To health) (Czech Republic)
• "Na zdravie" (To health) (Slovakia)
• "Na zdravje" (To health) (Slovenia)
• "Na zdravlje" (To good health) & "Živjeli" (To longer life) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
• "Na zdrowie" (To health) and "Sto lat!" ("100 years [of life to you]")(Poland)
• "Noroc" (Good luck) (Romania, Moldova)
• "Onna Ehenam" (Shall we gentlemen),"Ayubo wewa" (Long Life) (Sri Lanka)
• "Priekā", "prosit" (To joy/cheer) (Latvia)
• "Proost" (Netherlands)
• "Prost", "Prosit" (Germany and Austria) from Latin "prosit" -- "may it be good, i.e., for you" [2] [3]
• "Pura vida" (Costa Rica)
• "Saħħa" (Health), "Eviva" (Maltese)
• "Saliq" (Azerbaijan)
• "Salud" (Health) (Spain and Spanish speaking places)
• "Salut" (Catalan Countries)
• "Salute" (Health) or "Cin cin" or "Cent'anni" (A hundred years [of good health / luck]) or "Viva" (Italy)
• "Sǎnǎtate!" (Health) (Romania)
• "Santé" (Health) (France, French-speaking Switzerland and Québec)
• "Saúde" (Health) (Brazil, Portugal and Portuguese speaking places)
• "Schol" (Flanders)
• "Şerefe" (To honour) (Turkey)
• "Skål" ([The] cup) (Denmark, Norway and Sweden, also used in Australia. pronounced, "skull", meaning that the glass must be drained in one attempt)
• "Skál" ([The] cup) (Iceland, Faroe Islands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland)
• "Skoal" (Anglicization of Skål) (English-speaking countries)
• "Sláinte" (Ireland) (meaning 'good health')
• "Slàinte" (Scotland)
• "Tchim-tchim" (Brazil, Portugal and Portuguese speaking places)
• "Terviseks" (For health) (Estonia)
• "Topa" (Clink [the glasses]) (Basque)
• "Tsjoch" (Friesland)
• "Tzvertji nye vy Şorcj" (May death come swiftly to your enemies) (South Ossetia)
• "Yec'hed mat" (Breton)
• "飲勝"(Yam Sing) or "飲杯"(Yam Bui) (Hong Kong)
• "Živeli"(To life/health) (Serbia)
• "Živjeli" (To life) or "Nazdravlje" (To health) or "U zdravlje" (To health) (Croatia)
• "Zum Wohl" (To (your) well-being) (Germany, Austria and German-speaking Switzerland)

DavidOaks (talk) 13:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

References

honor/honour

British spelling or American? Two views: for British: Sprachmeister (says: "Given that the majority of English speakers use a spelling more akin to the British spelling, it is appropriate for an international audience to reach a wider number of people." DavidOaks says: "honor" gets 131m googlehits, "honour" 48m."

No thankyou, sorry, I'm driving

• What is toasting custom for a guest who is unwilling to drink alcohol because he intends to drive home, or is teetotal, or is a reformed (successfully dried-out) former alcoholic and dare not touch a drop else that will restart his old addiction full power? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:51, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

spiced toast

The article mentions "spiced toast". Does it mean "spiced toast"? 109.67.203.144 (talk) 05:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Cincin and other similar toasting.

Italian Treccani encyclopaedia states that "cincin" has chinese derivation, or is an onomatopoeia. I'm pretty sure that french, spanish and portoguese toast have the same history. I can't find any clue of hebrew past, so I changed the italian and put the cn on the other ones.--EntroDipintaGabbia (talk) 00:26, 2 October 2012 (UTC

It's listed under Spanish, Portugese, Italian, French, and Catalan, and the without citation, I suspect shenanigans on the Hebrew derivation, as well as the Chinese. Ching/Qing/etc is not a toast heard in Mandarin, and the cultural separation of Western Europe and China would have made this a recent trend. The history of anti-Semitism in Western Europe would have discouraged the Hebrew adoption, whereas the sound of glasses clinking together in the act of toasting is uniform across borders and languages. 70.188.228.166 (talk) 05:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's pretty silly that essentially the same toast is given three completely different meanings and derivations. My own personal WP:OR (or WP:SWAG) is that the onomatopoeia is quite plausible, and the Hebrew and Mandarin derivations are quite implausible. I'd be comfortable changing all three to "onomatopoeia (citation needed)" — but perhaps someone can find a cite? — Narsil (talk) 05:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Not hearing any further comment, I'm going to change the meaning for all those languages to "onomatopoeia (sound of clinked glasses) (citation needed)" -- I hope that's okay? -- Narsil (talk) 01:02, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: The Italian dictionary entry cited does suggest that onomatopoeia was at least part of the derivation. I think it's reasonable to use that etymology for all of them. -- Narsil (talk) 01:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence: my fiancée is French and she says it is onomatopoeia, and she hasn't heard of any notion of Chinese derivation. So, regardless if its true origins derive from Chinese, it is widely believed to be onomatopoeia, and is disseminated as such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.202.254.160 (talk) 03:29, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

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