Talk:Tragic Kingdom

Latest comment: 7 years ago by InternetArchiveBot in topic External links modified
Featured articleTragic Kingdom is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 27, 2008Good article nomineeListed
November 11, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
December 20, 2008Featured article candidateNot promoted
January 13, 2009Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 3, 2009Featured article candidatePromoted
October 19, 2009Featured topic candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Keyboards

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Didn't Eric Stefani do most of the keyboards on this album?

The information after the track listing is all POV and should be rewitten or removed. 67.187.189.139 07:19, 20 June 2006

Cover art and name

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While Disney now uses Magic Kingdom primarily to brand the Orlando park, it was originally used for Disneyland in Anaheim. There's nothing obvious about the cover being an alcoholic beverage label, and there is plenty to indicate that it's a fruit crate label -- particularly the fruit, and the "Sunpist" (ref Sunkist) reference. Patrickbowman (talk) 20:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC) (UTC)Reply

Genre

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I listed the genre as "Ska-punk, punk rock, alternative rock." I don't think any of the songs are really "post-grunge." "Don't Speak" and "The Climb" are alternative rock, "Excuse Me Mr." is punk rock, "Sixteen" is the perfect example of ska-punk. I placed the hidden comment for a reason. Is there anyone else with an opinion? Tezkag72 (talk) 18:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

What's there is fine enough with me. Before making the change, I wanted to see what people thought about changing "American rock band" to "American third wave ska band" in the lead. All of No Doubt's albums have had ska in them, but the term also includes the band's pop and rock styles. More importantly, it makes the connection between Tragic Kingdom and the 1990s ska revival more apparent. PiracyFundsTerrorism (talk) 05:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, I'd buy that. Let's go. Tezkag72 (talk) 12:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Will do

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This article is next on my to-do list. Give me a week to finish my current project and I'll start building this up. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk to me The mess I've made 15:09, 9 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

OK, I've started my major revamp. Massive coincidence it being "collaboration of the week". Help is appreciated, although I'm taking my format from No Doubt (No Doubt album) and The Beacon Street Collection and will get grumpy otherwise. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 15:25, 11 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Some links that people working on the article may find helpful: [1][2][3][4][5] PiracyFundsTerrorism (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Don't Speak

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This was released as an air-play only single in the US but was still a single. In Europe, Australia and Japan it was released as a CD in 1997. We even have a copy of its CD cover in the article. Its precise place in the album's single chronology is unsure, but it was definitely a single. I'm putting it in as the third single. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 20:12, 14 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Standard

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With a bit more work (such as rewriting the lead, which I'm about to do) I think this could make featured article status. There's so much information out there, it seems a shame to leave it at a GA nom. Tezkag72 and PiracyFundsTerrorism, how about we hammer this into shape and make a join-nom at FAN when it's up to scratch? -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 19:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'm listing this at WP:GAN as I think it is GA standard. More than likely it'll take at least two weeks for someone to have a look so, if either of you want/need to make any changes, there is time. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 19:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)Reply
I think it's ready also. PiracyFundsTerrorism, are you up for it? WesleyDodds I think only worked on this because it was the collaboration of the week. But I am willing to put it at the top of my list until it's an FA, or at least a GA. Tezkag72 (talk) 21:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)Reply
Yay! Well, I'm just going to sit on it until its GA review rolls round and edit elsewhere. Then we'll see what needs a polish. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 21:39, 22 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Tragic Kingdom/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

(outdent)Well we have: '"When we got back, though, the problems started." Stefani has resumed the story. "We were writing and writing, but Interscope was being really wishy-washy about letting us go in the studio. Things just kept getting dragged out... ."

"Months and months and months," emphasizes Young, shaking his head. "We were going insane."' from the source. I'll track down something else if that isn't obvious enough. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 18:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

  • We also have a new source: 'Things weren't always so rosy for No Doubt. Three difficult years have passed since the release of the group's self-titled debut on Interscope. Shortly after the album's delivery, the record label mysteriously pulled its support for the project, leaving the band to finance a tour on its own. Undaunted, the group spent the first part of '93 working on new music, turning out roughly 50 fresh songs. They found a producer to work with, approached the record company with all their ideas and were indefinitely put on hold.' -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 18:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
    • That's all solid info (and it should be incorporated into the article at some point), but calling it a loss of faith is still a leap. Probably best to remove that clause and not attribute a motive until a reference is found that backs it up unequivocally. —Zeagler (talk) 18:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)   FixedReply
  • 3. Broad in its coverage
    • I think the mention of the band's releasing two singles from The Beacon Street Collection independently goes beyond the scope of the article, especially since the "independent" point is made in the surrounding sentences.
    • Including in the prose all the chart placements of the singles makes for a difficult read. Maybe it can be summarized a bit. —Zeagler (talk) 02:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  • 4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias
  • 5. Stable
    • OK
  • 6. Illustrated, if possible, by images
    • A picture of the stage set-up from the tour would be helpful – have you searched Flickr?
The most I can find is a ticket stub here. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk Contributions 17:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Let me know when you've addressed these issues or if you'd like to discuss further. Nice job so far. —Zeagler (talk) 23:08, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

So...are we ready to go? Tezkag72 (talk) 18:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
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This is done now. Tezkag72 01:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

Review

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This is from 34th Street Magazine : link

Clearly, as the writer admits to only being 8 when the album was released, it is a recent review (rather than being written in 1995 and only having being posted on the site recently). I say we include it as a more recent review. If we get a couple of recent reviews, we could hammer out a third paragraph in the "critical reception" section. Tezkag72, input? -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 17:02, 26 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

  • I've decided to layout the "music" section as per Love. Angel. Music. Baby.#Music. "Musical style" we can take from reviews. I know there will be an issue with dead citations linking to interviews hosted at No Doubt's website but maybe we can find cached versions or the citations will be back up by the time this hits FAC. Lyrical content - comment on how Gwen rather than Eric is writing most songs and the themes (from reviews and interviews). Singles - this section is fine.
  • EA Swyer Talk Contributions 18:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
    • The ref used in the "lyrics" section is a dead link. However, I've found the transcipt of the interview elsewhere, on a fan site here. As I have little choice in the matter, I'm redirecting the ref there. :) -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 19:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
      • I'm not sure that would count. Wikipedia has a big issue with "reliable" sources, as I learned from a failed FAC in April. Tezkag72 (talk) 20:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
        • I'm going out on a limb and trying to contact the interviewer to see if a hardcopy of the interview was ever published. In the meantime, I shall continue to polish the "music" section, then expand the lead. If there is any reply, I should have had it by then. I'll look for other comments on the themes online too. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 22:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

He got back to me! Evan Zelig emailed me back! I obviously cannot post the content of the email here, but the basic gist was that:

  1. The interview was never printed in hard copy.
  2. It was published on Zelig's site, Concert Online, which is no longer active.
  3. Mirrors exist, but the one that used to be at No Doubt's official site is the only official one.

-- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 21:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

That is unfortunate. What can we do about it now? Tezkag72 (talk) 15:59, 3 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
I want to keep it in. After all, the interviewer himself admitted its a mirror rather than a load of made-up BS. Could you find another quotation that summarises the lyrical writing? We'll keep it in until we're told to take it out. In the meantime, the broken references we have are numbers: 5, 6, 21, 24, 27, 28, 42. The Billboard ones (all but 5 and 6) simply need redirecting. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 17:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
Another thing, we need to convert all the references that are just a link with a title to the "cite web" template. I'll try to get them done when I have more time, but if we're just going to remove them anyway... Tezkag72 (talk) 21:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
Tell you what, you convert all the refs I haven't listed. I'll fix the ones that I did list. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 19:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
I tried to format a few of the Billboard refs in Singles, but they are now dead links. I don't really know what page it was before, but would I be able to use this?
Way-hay! I've fixed all the dead refs. Could you format all the refs while I'm away (holiday in Edinburgh, Scotland with little internet access) and we'll nominate it in 3 weeks' time? -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 01:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
Done. But there were two links that were dead (thanks, Billboard Top 40 Mainstream) so instead of formatting references that didn't exist, I marked them as dead links. Not much is covered by them, so should I just remove them and the stuff that is? Tezkag72 (talk) 16:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
Yes, remove the info. I really hate Billboard's new layout: it's impossible to find anything! After that, I'm happy to nominate. When did you want to do so? -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 21:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

Final brush up

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Hello from Edinburgh. I've just realised something we're missing from the article. At the bottom we have a "preceded by-succeeded by" box for Billboard number 1. We're going to need boxes like this for every major chart it went to number one at. I'm back in London Friday where I'll have proper internet. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 12:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

Don't have much time now, but I'll try to get around to it later. Sorry I haven't been on in the past week; some squirrels chewed through a wire through which I get telephone and internet, and it took a few days to get someone to repair it. Tezkag72 (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
I've fixed those deadlinks. I don't think we need those boxes, although if you could do them, that would be great. I want to nominate it. Will drop you a line at your talk page. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 00:06, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
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