Talk:Tropical Storm Harold

Notability

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The impact of the storm is not really hard, only gusts, winds, rainfall and your other usual effects but WAY weaker. Also, some people in TS Philippe's talk page mentioned that this page could be merged. Nanchang17 (talk) 13:53, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose I think this storm, though short lived and weak, still should have an article since there was some wind, heavy rainfall, storm surge, and impact, though mostly minimal. It resulted in a school closing for several days due to damage so I think that can make the storm notable. VehicleandWeatherEnthusiast2022 (talk) 15:22, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - I do believe Harold was notable enough to have its own article, even if it wasn't a necessarily impactful storm. Poxy4 (talk) 20:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - I honestly didn't think an article was necessary here and felt like the creation would be another case of a storm needing an article just because it hit the United States. However, now that it is here and the info in seems to justify its inclusion, I don't really feel like it needs to be merged. ChessEric 21:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose i personally think this article is pretty large enough to deserve an article. the storm did bring some heavy rain and winds and issued multiple warnings throughout the areas

RainbowGalaxyPOC (talk) 23:34, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose As author of this article. Easily passes WP:GNG and WPTC's notability guidelines. Information about its impacts are far too extensive to be merged into the main article. See my comments on the 2023 Atlantic hurricane season and Tropical Storm Philippe (2023) talk pages as well. JayTee⛈️ 12:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - still room to expand, while the season article is already full enough as it is. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose the storm definitely had some impacts. The article is already big enough. 2600:4041:47C:400:C005:2896:839C:3151 (talk) 22:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per all, and this system while being short-lived, did cause damage to South Texas and areas outside of the warning area, so Harold's article should be kept for that reason. If it hadn't caused damage, then a merger would have been in order, but not here. tai (he/him) (talk) 02:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nevada fatality possibly as a result of this storm

@JayTee32: Should we add a Nevada fatality mentioned in this source to the article? It directly mentions Harold but the wording makes me think they might not be totally related, not even enough to call “indirect”. 108.170.65.170 (talk) 20:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Considering the flooding was due to Harold’s remnants I’d say it could definitely be added as an indirect death. You also don’t need to ask permission to add the source to the article- you can be WP:BOLD and add it yourself :) JayTee⛈️ 23:37, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Tropical Storm Harold/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: IrishSurfer21 (talk · contribs) 22:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: TheNuggeteer (talk · contribs) 05:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Probably going to review this later or tomorrow. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 05:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay. It may take a bit long since I am going to be busy these next few weeks, but I’ll do my best to keep up with this review.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 13:09, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm here to help as well to keep up with the review. JayTee⛈️ 02:19, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer Any word on the review? JayTee⛈️ 01:14, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Follows the MoS guidelines.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Proper assortment of references.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Some problems with inline citations.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Some problems of OR on the last sentence of MH.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Some minor problems with broadness.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	No sign of instability, most edits are for expansion.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Every image is okay and tagged with their particular license.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	The images are relevant to the topic.
	7. Overall assessment.

Finally reviewing. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 03:59, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead

Nothing wrong currently! 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Meteorological history

• Use the {{rp}} template on source 1, the first, second, third iteration, and the fourth iteration mentions page 2, so put that.
• Convection increased over the northern of the wave After northern, add 'part'.
• Remove the first iteration of source 1, since the second iteration is also after the source.
• You can include some text in source 9 to Preparations and impact, since the ref is a warning.
• Can you add another reliable source with source 17? The source does not follow the sentence clearly, just being a map. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

  @TheNuggeteer Completed first three bullets. Couldn't find anything in Ref 9 that wasn't already in Prep/Impacts. Deleted Source 17 after realizing it contradicted the TCR. JayTee⛈️ 05:00, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Preparations and impact

• from the mouth of the Rio Grande river, at the Texas-Mexico border, up to Port O'Connor, The source does not mention this.

 Added source that mentions this.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 15:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• This source does not show the news article, it shows instead a page to "be ready" for a hurricane.
• It would be better to use the {{rp}} template for source 1.
• A light pole at a McDonald's restaurant was also knocked down. What's so significant about this? And even if it's significant, that you should make it plural, since the source states two restaurants.

 Rewrote sentence and merged with previous sentence.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 15:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• threatening unhatched sea turtle eggs Can you explain why it's significant?
• A portable toilet was blown over by strong winds on a Padre Island beach, disposing large puddles of waste. Authorities warned visitors to keep away from these puddles as they could be inhabited by snakes. Is this significant? Can a porta-potty be mentioned in a Wikipedia article?
• Source 33 does not mention the campus.
• There are two renditions of Source 3 in 'Elsewhere', you can remove the first rendition.
• Add translation to source 54-56. DoneIrishSurfer21 (talk) 15:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:09, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Addressed all points. Deleted the parts about the eggs, McDonalds and porta potty as they were trivial details. Adjusted repetitive sources. JayTee⛈️ 15:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Concluding comments

• There's a lot of local news mentioned in here, which shouldn't be mentioned in the article. Other than that, the article looks good, and can easily go to GA. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:09, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Other comments

Will check the rest later. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer How's it looking? JayTee⛈️ 06:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer Please finish your review. You have been extremely active recently and yet have still not finished this review after nearly 3 weeks of holding it. Not only that, you have taken on several more GAN reviews since then, which make your actions appear negligent. Please do not take on GA reviews if you are not willing to take on the time to complete them. TheBritinator (talk) 00:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• sigh.. Finally done with the review, you can answer the comments. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:09, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

  @JayTee32 Ping. TheBritinator (talk) 13:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Five bullets are still uncompleted. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 12:08, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer And I just got to them. Everything should be addressed now. You mentioned local news sources should be removed, is there a specific reason why and if so, which sources do you think should go? JayTee⛈️ 15:37, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move to Tropical Storm Harold (2023)? (Requested move 28 October 2024)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

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Tropical Storm Harold → Tropical Storm Harold (2023) – Harold has only been used once in the Atlantic, but has been used to name other tropical cyclones in other basins (for example Cyclone Harold in 2020), and usually if there are other storms of the same name, Tropical Storm (name) would be redirected to List of storms named (name).

I believe Harold 2023 should have the year in its article title, especially since it was not retired and it was not notable; Hurricanes like Beryl and Helene were significant and devastating so they don’t have the year in their titles (both aren’t retired yet but likely will be, this does not count for Milton as this is the only time Milton has been used for a storm name (though Milton likely will be retired as well)).

Tropical Storm Allison is another storm of tropical storm strength without the year in its title, though that was because it was devastating and significant and was also retired. Beryl and Helene were also significant enough not to have the year in the title.

So, I think the article should be renamed from Tropical Storm Harold (without the year) to Tropical Storm Harold (2023), and “Tropical Storm Harold” would be redirected to “List of storms named Harold”.

Thoughts? AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 22:49, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

All the other storms named Harold are called "Cyclone Harold", a far different name from "Tropical Storm Harold", of which there's only one. I believe Harold 2023 should have the year in its article title, especially since it was not retired and it was not notable is an incorrect statement, this storm would not have an article nor survived a merge discussion if it wasn't notable. Beryl, Helene and Milton are not applicable examples as they are all far more notable than other storms with the same name, while Harold has no other storms sharing its full name. JayTee⛈️ 02:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I also think that tropical storm isn't often conflated enough like hurricane is to raise the bar on what must have the year attached. ✶Quxyz✶ 11:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - Per JayTee. I think that a storm has to survive a merge if it's notable. Also, I don't think a comparison with Beryl, Helene, and Milton is fair because each of those storms caused billions in damaged and over 35 deaths. Shmego (talk) 13:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

None of you guys get what I mean. I am saying that there have been other storms named Harold (but in different basins) and this Harold was only minimal so it should have the year in its title because there were other cyclones worldwide with the same name. I am NOT talking about merging the article, I am talking about MOVING it so that it has the year, 2023, in its title, as Harold was not retired. I SAID that Beryl, Helene, and Milton DO have the years as they will very likely be retired. You guys don’t get it.

Just look at Nestor for example (year in title but only used for one other storm)

Tropical Storm Nestor (2019)

List of storms named Nestor AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 21:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

No we do know you are talking about moving it. But "Tropical Storm" is vastly different than Cyclone. JayTee's point stands. Shmego (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure if you do. Please read my reply above. AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 21:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Tropical storm is the same thing, tropical cyclones. Hurricane, typhoon, and cyclone is all different, tropical storm can be used in most of the basins (like besides NATL and EPAC, also WPAC and others). AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 21:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per JayTee.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, for reasons I have stated above. ✶Quxyz✶ 20:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.