Talk:Umm Sayyaf

Was she married to Abu Sayyaf or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi...

Was Umm Sayyaf married to Abu Sayyaf or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?

My reading of the references is that she was married to al-Baghdadi, and that the similarity of her name with that of Abu Sayyaf was merely coincidental.

Abu Sayyaf means "father of Sayyaf". Does "Umm Sayyaf" mean "mother of Sayyaf". Was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi the father of a kid named Bakr? Maybe, but this wouldn't preclude being married to Umm Sayyaf, as jihadis seem prepared to adopt nomme de guerres that imply they are fathers before they are fathers. The original Abu Bakr was the original Mohammed's right hand man. Additionally, al Baghdadi may have had multiple sons by multiple wives.

Anyhow, the article currently implies she was married to Abu Sayyaf, and I think this is a mistake, and, after waiting a reasonable amount of time, I will correct that.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 17:11, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

@ElbonianFL: your edit cites MSNBC who explicitly stated that Umm Sayyaf was married to Abu Sayyaf. But all those other sources say she was married to al-Baghdadi. The naming should be attributed to MSNBC, noting other references say al-Baghdadi. Geo Swan (talk) 18:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

@Geo Swan: As my revision hopefully makes clear, Umm Sayyaf and Abu Sayyaf are noms de guerre, a point which you acknowledge. As such, they cannot be expected to necessarily adhere to the normal naming conventions. In all of the news articles I read (including all of the citations I added), references are made to Umm Sayyaf as either the wife or widow of Abu Sayyaf. I do not understand how you could conclude Umm Sayyaf was married to al-Baghdadi. The references to al-Baghdadi involved Kayla Mueller, who was a hostage held by Abu Sayyaf and Umm Sayyaf but taken by al-Baghdadi as his wife (to be perfectly clear, Kayla Mueller was forcibly married to al-Baghdadi). Thus, the only "wife" of al-Baghdadi discussed in this article should be Kayla Mueller. So, I beg you to please not make your suggested "correction" as that would be erroneous based upon everything I've read about this situation. Abu Sayyaf was the right hand man for al-Baghdadi, handling the oil revenue, which is why Abu Sayyaf was trusted to hold Kayla Mueller and the young girl Yazidi slaves/hostages. Please feel free to check out the various news articles I've added as references.

ElbonianFL (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

• My apologies. I took a good long look at the earlier references. My apologies. I was mistaken. They did not identify her as the widow of al-Baghdadi. I withdraw my concerns.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 22:50, 16 August 2015 (UTC)