Talk:VSS Vintorez

Old talk

Shouldn't it say that the gun is usualy used in semi-auto instead of it saying it is usually used in single-shot, because there is a difference.

Popular Culture

I would just like to note some of the media I've seen the VSS in: Video Games: STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl Battlefield: Bad Company SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Tactical Strike Anime: Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu

yep - The video game Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business includes it as one of the many guns you can find among soldiers you defeat. 99.226.185.32 (talk) 08:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Are there any others? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.22.60 (talk) 03:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

A large portion of the text on this page appears to be the same as the text on this page: http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm There are line breaks at different points, but most of it is the same text. 76.229.90.74 (talk) 23:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Why "thread cutter"?

The name of the rifle was fixed in the project documentation by the developers. The rifle, when fired, makes a specific sound, similar to the sound of an old thread-cutting machine, only a shorter one. This is the name, literally: screw cutter. You can see video on youtube, search in russian text: "звук выстрела винтореза" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfunlimit (talk • contribs) 12:20, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I'v changed this to the "screw cutter" as this seems to me the right translations: vint (ru) = screw; rez (ru) - verb "rezat" (to cut) => screw cutter. --CopperKettle (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Thread, in the machining sense. "Thread cutter" makes sense as a translation (threading die).

The word "screw" is too specific, because it means external thread, when you can also tap a thread on the inside of a hole. Since "винторез" is an unofficial and non-descriptive nickname for the rifle, and since this is a translation of the Russian word, I guess it doesn't matter what we call it. But I prefer "thread cutter," since it reminds me of what happens to the bullet as it passes through the rifled barrel. No offense if I change it back? 70.59.150.74 (talk) 04:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I was confused as the lead-in mentioned "thread cutter" but then it was never brought up in the body of the article. When any rifled barrel weapon is fired it engraves the projectile. Why is this particular rifle nicknamed "thread cutter" ? --Marc Kupper|talk 08:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Much of reason probably was due to similar sounding with "винтовка" (battle rifle with threaded barrel). When codename for the project was devised, someone just dropped the word and it was considered good enough for internal use. Then it was made public and proved sticky. And "-рез" probably adds the feeling of strength and aggression here, something like "one shot - one corpse". So overall no point in thinking about some hidden sense. It was just one of those codenames that sounded good enough to stick forever. 85.90.120.180 (talk) 09:56, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I always thought it was a reference to mythology such as Atropos, who cut the "thread of life" resulting in a person's death. --D.E. Watters (talk) 18:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

When I first saw the phrase what came to mind is "the rifle is so accurate you can use it to cut threads" but your explanation makes a lot more sense and fits in with military humor. --Marc Kupper|talk 07:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

The Russian word for thread you sew with is "nit'" and the Russian word for thread that is used on screws etc is "rez'ba". In other words there is no connection between these two concepts in Russian.209.50.91.70 (talk) 20:26, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

"bolt cutter" is a specific tool, much like "винторез" is a specific tool, the two have nothing in common. If it's called "винторез" in Russian and you translate the meaning of the name then it should be "thread cutter" or tap, as in "tap and die". I've changed it to "thread cutter" since that is far closer to the correct translation.209.50.91.70 (talk) 20:21, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

It does not matter what you want to call it, vint translates as bolt, like a bolt that you would use bolt something down. Again, I have changed this to reflect the proper naming. Vint - or 'винт' in Russian is translated properly as bolt or screw. The Russian word for thread would be Nasyechka or Насечка. It does not matter that it is an unofficial name, as long as the translation is correct. If we wanted a "Treadcutter" we would call it a Nasyechkorez or Насечкарез in Russian.

--∑ssarege∑ (talk) 13:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

More likely "нарезка" - "narezka" if to talk about barrels, rather than bolts. However "vintorez" is not a tool to cut "vint" - that is bolt-cutter. "Vintorez" is a tool to cut "винтовая резьба" - "spiraling thread": slovaizbukv.ru/винторез.html Personally i think this nickname should not be translated at all, for being given due to similar *sounding* and not due to sense. However if to bother translating, then the referenced machinery should be used, which bolt-cutter was definitely not. 85.90.120.180 (talk) 10:01, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Whether or not it is 'properly translated' is mostly irrelevant in this case. The VSS is not known as "bolt cutter", Vintorez is almost universally translated as "thread cutter". A Google search for "VSS bolt cutter" reveals only 1,600 results, of which only Wikipedia and a single forum directly call it "bolt cutter"; whereas a search for "VSS thread cutter" reveals 30,000 results, almost all of which directly call it thread cutter. And Jane's also calls it thread cutter[1]. So when 'properly translated', Vintorez may mean "bolt cutter"; but the rifle is simply not called that. — DanMP5 15:53, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I have added the Jane's reference to the article. This is an extremely reliable source, so please do not remove it unless you provide another source of equal or greater reliability. — DanMP5 04:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that the people who want a "literal" or verbatim translation of the name are missing the point. Not every compound word can be translated directly piece-by-piece (e.g. where "винт" does actually mean "screw," the meaning of the word "винторез" still is more correctly carried across by the word "thread cutter.") This is a very comprehensive web dictionary that I use frequently, in case anyone still says "thread cutter" is a non-existent definition.

68.116.104.240 (talk) 05:27, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The name of Soviet military equipment often meaningless. For example, SAM SA-15 "Gauntlet" (in russian "Tor") - this is not Thor, it's Torus. Therefore, the debate about why "Vintorez" are meaningless. <Russian military joke>: "General Staff used a special computer program to give the name of military equipment. Once, when the program issued a meaningful name, the entire general staff entire week search a error in this programm".

"Vintorez" can not be translated as "thread cutter" (in this case it would be called as "Niterez"). "Vint" - Screw, "-rez" in this case - "cutter vint" that is "cutter screw", that is "Screw сutter" Shagrad (talk) 13:41, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Vintorez (Винторез) - abbreviation of rifled rifle (Винтовка нарезная).188.17.193.7 (talk) 15:52, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Beleive my Russian IP, "Винторез" (literally meaning "a screw maker", cmp:Винторезный станок) is an old jargonism (I mean slang word). It means a rifle. So it's like a cat named Neko. Generic proper noun from a slang became a proper name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.195.16.172 (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it comes from following Russian saying: "На каждую хитрую гайку найдётся болт с резьбой." ( approximate translation: "For every weird-threaded nut, screw with fitting thread will be found."). Meaning, for every specific task, a proper tool will be found. There is also a common addition to that saying "А не найдется - нарежем" ( approximate translation: "And if fitting threaded screw can't be found - it will be cut anew" ). Thus, the "Винторез" ( "Threadcutter" ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.100.164.184 (talk) 05:53, 12 February 2019 (UTC) The name "Vintorez" remained in use after its use in the design documentation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.59.73.111 (talk) 06:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

As a russian when i hear a "vintorez" i'm imaging tool like automatic screwdriver, but rez(base of "резьба" rez'ba(carving), "врезаться" vrezat'sa(crash, bump into)) makes me think about tool that must put screws into unprepared surface(thats not have holes yet) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dka77 (talk • contribs) 11:34, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Action?

The VSS uses a crazy 6 lug reciprocating gas piston system that bears discussion. Its a striker-fired rifle as well which is interesting. Overall, such an interesting rifle needs a better article. Too bad that sources on the VSS are few and far between. El Jorge (talk) 13:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Image

Did something happen to the main image? It's still there on the Russian page, so I'm pretty sure it's fair use. 97.125.48.202 (talk) 01:34, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Removal of barrel for cleaning but not firing?

"The suppressor can be easily removed for storage or maintenance, but the VSS should not be fired without the suppressor." Anyone know why this is? 85.240.189.9 (talk) 07:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Russian page claims that the barrel is full of holes during almost all its length. The fumes dissipate through those wholes to the outside silencer, where they extinct each other by interference and where they "blur" the instant shot sound of solid barrel into a somewhat longer noise (time of bullet going through the bullet). Thus, using the gun without the silencer would probably make the hot fumes dangerous to the shooter himself, and perhaps the barrel cooling would suffer as well ? 85.90.120.180 (talk) 10:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The answer is that the official manual of arms for the weapon explicitly states that it is forbidden to fire the weapon without the silencer installed. It is a factory requirement from the manual. We can speculate on what would happen if you did it anyway (it may be the weapon and the shooter would be OK, more or less), but this is what the designers say. Since it's a military equipment, the recommended manner of usage is also the only method an operator should utilize normally. Considering how drastically a suppressor changes the dynamics of self-loading weapons (backblast, pressure envelope etc.), it may very well be actually unsafe or at least unreliable to fire VSS without its suppressor. Surely, regular non-suppressed weapons often behave very differently with a suppressor attached. 46.254.217.130 (talk) 19:57, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

File:VssVintorez.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Confusion from the Janes article

There is some incorrect info here that I think is taken from the Janes article linked at the end (http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Infantry-Weapons/VSS-9-mm-silent-sniper-rifle-Russian-Federation.html), the bit that states:

“The VSS forms part of the VSK silenced sniper system. With the system, the rifle can be coupled to the PKS-07 collimated telescopic sight or the PKN-03 night sight. When the rifle forms part of the VSK system the range of ammunition can be extended to include the SP-6 and PAB-9 cartridges.”

I think this is confusing the VSS with the VSK-94, a seperate system based on a different weapon. (The VSS is derived from the AS and SR-3, the VSK-94 is derived from the 9A-91). The VSK-94 is a newer, competing platform filling the same role as the VSS; the mentioned PKS-07 and PKN-03 sights were developed for that platform. (You can see a VSK-94 with an attached PKS-07, the default for that weapon, here: http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=434). The VSK-94 was intended as a cheaper alternative, which is why it was made to be able to use the 'budget' PAB-9 ammo, which the VSS cannot, no matter what designation is applied. The confusion probably comes from the original system designation applied to the VSS/6P29 in combination with the SP5/7N8 subsonic round: when developed, in 1987, the two together were referred to as BSK. See this link: http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_spesial_vss_eng.html particularly these lines:

“The BSK noiseless sniper system was developed at the TSNIITOCHMASH Research Institute (Klimovsk) by P. I. Serdyukov and V. F. Krasnikov and adopted for service in 1987. The BSK system includes a special sniper rifle (VSS Vintorez. index 6P29) and a special 9 mm round (SP 5, index 7N8).”

Also, in Russian, V is written as B, the VSS as noted in this article, is actually a ВСС, using native characters. VSK/BSK

Its also possible there is a mixup with the VKS (Vintovka Krupnokalibernaya Snaiperskaya — large-calibre sniper rifle) rifle, too, see: http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=438&lang=ru – this is another different weapon, designed for a similar role to both the VSS and VSK-94, but with greater range and armour penetration.

I'm not going to make the change myself, I dunno if I've satisfied the standards for authoritive sources, but I wouldn't trust the Janes article here, they seem to be confused. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.80.171 (talk) 12:33, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Users of that weapon

Same issue here,

please stop deleting Georgia from the users section. This weapons and the AS VAL are frequently used by the Georgian police in raid operations and it is also in the inventory of the military special forces. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 13:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Users

References are missing. NISMO1968 (talk) 04:19, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Historical Use

As I understand, the weapon was developed for the KGB, am I right? Only later was it also adopted by the army. So why would the KGB need a weapon to silently and discreetly kill people? Were there so many dangerous underground criminal gangs during Soviet times that this was needed, or did the development of this weapon have a more "political" nature? Or is it that the KGB also operated in a similar vein as the CIA in places like, for instance, Afghanistan? But if the latter is the case, wouldn't there be a siginificant risk of losing state of the art equipment to the enemy if a mission failed? Is there any documentation on this, worth submitting to the article? --89.10.230.40 (talk) 12:02, 1 June 2020 (UTC)