Talk:Valerie Rodway

Educator

Great article! I added several categories. In the career section, it states she was a music educator. I was wondering if that could/should be added to the lede to read that Rodway was both a composer and music educator. TJMSmith (talk) 00:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Great point! I will do that. Thanks, TJMSmith!–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:41, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Valerie Rodway/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 14:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Excellent, thanks! I haven't looked at this in awhile, I can take a quick review for edits.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I finished the edits.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:00, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Amitchell125, It thought I would just check in with you. Are you still interested in performing this review?–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

CaroleHenson Apologies for the delay, I will work on it and complete the review asap. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:21, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. I really appreciate it.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Assessment

Links

• Link Guyana in the caption; schooner; sloop; Caribbean; British Guiana; Barbados; hurricanes.
• Link colonial territory (Colonialism), jammed (Jam session); jazz.
• Link St. Vincent Grammar School.

 Done - I used Crown colony for colonial territory.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:34, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Understood. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Early life

• Perhaps add that she was the fourth daughter (from Reference 6).
• Make a new paragraph after Within British Guiana… to help the text read more easily.

I am not seeing what you are seeing regarding a natural break in the information about her father. I did create a new paragraph for her maternal ancestor. Does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

That looks fine. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• She had an interest… - consider replacing with 'Valerie had an interest', as her mother and her maternal ancestor are both included in the text.
• Note c is worth including in the main text, and not as a separate note.
• Consider replacing ...as a child with .. with 'by'.

I also took out "with".–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• According to her sister Lucille Wharton, Valerie, then a toddler, would wander away from the family’s home and visit a neighbour to “tinkle the keys” of the piano.' (found in Reference 4) Worth including in the first paragraph?

I think you mean the first sentence of that paragraph. Is that right?–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

That's right, my error. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...and then she earned… sounds better as '...and she later obtained…'
• ...London, England. - there's not really any need for England.
• She became a good friend of Lynette Dolphin… - Who was Lynette Dolphin?

I am assuming that you mean adding "musician"... since this was before she was a musician, I said "future musician". Does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC) If that's what you were getting at, I will take out ", herself a musician,".–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Correct. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Ok,  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...after Dolphin's mother, Clarice de Weever Dolphin, died in 1936. - replace with '...after the death of her mother in 1936.', as I'm not need convinced this detail is needed here (see WP:BIOFAMILY. However, the fact that both 2 Dolphin sisters moved in with the Frasers could be mentioned.

Understood, it now looks fine. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

How about "after the death of her mother, Clarice de Weever Dolphin, in 1936." I am not seeing the harm of having her mother's name. If it is a big deal, though, I will take it out.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• References 8 and 11 both don't seem to mention that Dolphin was a source of inspiration for Rodway, as mentioned in the article. Another reference is needed to cite this information.

Okay, I will look for that. Thanks for checking!–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

This source (#9) says "A central personality in this shift in musical focus was Lynette Dolphin."

Source #11 does not really apply. I think I added it because Lynette was a noted musician, kind of bolstering why she would be a source of inspiration. I removed it as a source.

Do you think I should reword the sentence to be most specific about causing a shift in he musical focus -- as opposed to saying that she was an inspiration?–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Rewording according to your suggestion is a good idea. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Ok,  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• The Fraser family valued service… - this sentence isn't significant, and I wouldn't include it - surely many families are the same?

I mention it here because her values are referred to later. I think you're right that most families value these things, but I think that her family was particularly driven by their values. If it's a big deal, I will remove it.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

If the family was particularly driven in this way, it's worth including that in the text. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

 Half done I have addressed each of the issues, but there are some places where I have made some tweaks or have a follow-up question.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I changed the wording in two places, due to the discussion above ("herself a musician", influence).–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Career

• ...St. Ambrose School… - 'St. Ambrose Primary School'?
• Start the section with 'Rodway', not She.
• ...and received support and inspiration from her second husband, James Rodway. - Clearly, it wasn't the independence movement that received this support, as is implied here. Consider moving this phrase to the first paragraph of the section, where his name is first mentioned.

That's the way that they made it sound, but it doesn't seem right. I just took it out. It's not a big deal.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...that Rodway wrote with her husband James… - delete, as it's already been said.
• That Rodway composed O Beautiful Guyana, Guyana the Free and Hymn for Guyana's Children is stated three times in three consecutive paragraphs - you need to reduce the occurrence for each song to once only.
• ...Guyana moved … - 'Guyana moved towards'.

 Done with this part of the section.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...the values of "service to the nation, respect for the heritage, [and] the creation of a just and caring society". - As these words were written by Vibert Cambridge, I would amend the text to 'the values of "service to the nation, respect for the heritage, [and] the creation of a just and caring society", according to Vibert Cambridge, President of the Guyuan Cultural Association of New York. (ref here)'.

That went to a main page, but I found another source. Cambridge is a great find, thanks!  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Agreed! Amitchell125 (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• Add 'According to the Stabroek News,' before her work represents pride in her country….
• The text is 'sandwiched' (MOS:SANDWICHING). As with images, it needs to be avoided. I suggest you move the external media template to the External links section at the end of the article.

"You have much better eyes than me, my dear" (the grandmother in Little Red Riding Hood to the wolf (not meaning that you are the wolf)). I have the font to the size that there is zero sandwiching, so I never noticed that. I moved the images / boxes around. What do you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

That now fine. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...her friend Lynette Dolphin,… no need for her friend here, as it has already been stated in another part of the text.
• ...other music festivals. - It's not clear to me whether you are referring here to other years when the British Guiana Music Festival was held, or festivals organised by other organisations.

I changed it to "and music festivals held by other organizations."–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• ...with Douglas Harper, a jazz pianist,… amend to 'with the jazz pianist Douglas Harper'.

I think that was an attempt to paraphrase, but this could be considered one of those times where there are limited options.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• Her posthumous award shouldn't be included in this section.

I merged it into a section now titled Awards and legacy.

• It seems from this newspaper article that Rodway received the the Cacique Crown of Honor in 2019: this needs to be made clear.

Very cool! I looked for the year and didn't find it! I must have skipped over it. Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done I completed this part of the section, too. There are some comments above.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Personal life

• The first two sentences need attention. I would rewrite them as 'In 1958, as Valerie Warner, she married the poet and teacher James "Sonny" Rodway, a grandson of the Guyanese historian James Rodway.'
• Most of the first paragraph, from After he earned his teacher's certificate… to ...when he retired is not applicable to the section, as it is about Rodway's husband, and not her. Imo the text would be better placed in the Notes section.
• Remove the last sentence, as the church that a person attended is not relevant for an encyclopedia article.

As the relevant information in this section could easily fit elsewhere, I don't now see any need for it.

 Done See the new Personal life section at the top, incorporating the Early life section.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, CaroleHenson. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:16, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Legacy

• In the caption, ...was commissioned… - '...was renamed…'? Also, …on 94 Carmichael Street, Cummingsburg, Georgetown, Guyana. could simply be '...in Georgetown…'.
• The Postmaster General… - add 'of Guyana' (or something similar), as there are similar posts around the world.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Notes

• It needs to be clearer to someone reading the Notes section what the word her is referring to.
• …the White House in New Amsterdam. It was later named the Strand Hotel. - sounds better written as '…the White House in New Amsterdam, later to become the Strand Hotel.' (or something like that).
• Novelist Anthony Trollope (1815–1882) stayed at Old Parris Britton's House in New Amsterdam. He called it the best hotel in the West Indies. It was torn down many years before 1898. Is any of this necessary for the article?
• The external image on the right needs to be moved to the External links section.

Under "Where to use" on {{External media}} it says: "This template is normally placed in the main body of the article, in the same place that you would normally have placed the image, 3D model, audio, or video clip if it had been available on Wikimedia Commons."–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that, didn't realise. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:24, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• (video 2 min.) - this needs to edited so that the source (YouTube) is referred to and the abbreviation is removed.

 Done. Please see the comment about External media.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead section

• Ensure that Rodway's full birth date and the month of her death are included in both the lead section and her infobox.
• She has been considered Guyana's greatest composer of patriotic and national music,... - is not mentioned in the main body of the article (see MOS:LEAD, 'significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article'). I would move the reference at the end of this sentence from the lead to the main text.
• Ditto ...and among the best composers from Guyana of the 20th century, generally and among composers of classical music.

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd bullet, it has been my practice, per MOS:LEADCITE, to cite claims in the Lead section. I would prefer to leave them there. I did copy down the sentence from the 2nd bullet.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Happy to concur about the citation, a little warning sounds in my head when there's a citation in the lead, it often means the lead has information that the main body doesn't! Amitchell125 (talk) 13:29, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

• Ref 3 only describes Rodway as having "achieved recognition", and so cannot be used as a citation here.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

On hold

I'm placing the article on hold for a week, most of the amendments needed shouldn't take long to address. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Amitchell125, Thanks so much for your review! I really appreciate it. I have completed all the sections. There are some section changes as the result of your comments: Early life and Personal life are rolled into one Personal life section. The Legacy section was renamed to Awards and legacy, because you did not want awards in her Career section. I am looking forward to your feedback on the edits and my comments.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:15, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I wanted to suggest that the mentions of Rodway's husband James in the lede be not so repetitive between the first paragraph and the third. I hadn't realized there was any information on her death beyond the year when I independently made date formatting changes to the lede and infobox, but while the article says August 1970, the source immediately after that date does not mention the year of her death at all, much less the month. (Other sources have the year.) A source for the month is definitely needed, and if it has the actual date, so much the better. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, I removed the relevant part of a sentence in the first paragraph.

I have updated the citation for the month and year of death - thanks for catching that!

The death date field in the infobox has been updated to "August 1970 (age 51) <!----{{Death year and age|1970|1919}}--->" because I don't know how to format the month and year only for death. Is there a way to do that? Thanks so much for your input, too.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:15, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

CaroleHenson, I've updated the infobox to use a different template, {{Death date and age}}. You can always find out how to use a template by putting "Template:" followed by the template name in the "Search Wikipedia" box at the top of every page; on the template page, you can see how it's supposed to be used. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks! I didn't know you could leave a parameter (day) blank. For some reason, the date templates threw me for a loop - but now I know. Much appreciated!–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:27, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Passing

There are two minor points not addressed yet, but they don't affect the article now being GA. Am passing it now, many thanks for all your efforts, it was an absolute pleasure reviewing the article for you. Keep safe! Amitchell125 (talk) 13:33, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank YOU, Amitchell125. The article is now nicely polished! I made the two edits to the article. It was great working with you, too!–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:51, 29 April 2020 (UTC)