Talk:Victor Frankenstein

Original Research

I reluctantly removed the following passages, as I believe they violate Wikipedia's guidelines.

April Wild, Analysis Frankenstein

+ + Frankenstein is a story with not one but two monsters in it. The first being the one that Victor, the mad scientist, created using dead body pieces. The second being Victor himself. Victor was not unlike his monster. There are many things that made victor the monster that he became. The way Victor created him, the hatred he had for him, and the silence and deceit that lead to the deaths of the ones he loved, and all show the monster that Victor was. + + Victor spent endless hours in hopes of creating life. One driving thought he had about creating this life was self glory. In Chapter 4 he says that the “…new species…would bless me as his creator and source; many happy and excellent natures would owe their being to me. No father could claim the gratitude of his child so completely as I should deserve theirs.” (Shelly Ch 4) He wanted to be a god like figure for these beings. He wanted the gratification of having a species owe him something. The idea consumed him to the point that he was no longer enjoying life. He would work late in the night, going to graveyards collecting body pieces for his project. He killed living animals also for more pieces. Victor said, “I seem to lost all soul or sensation but for this one pursuit.” (Shelly Ch4) It seemed that Victor was willing to do unmoral and unthinkable acts to accomplish his goal without sparing any expense. During his unrelenting quest to make this being he stopped corresponding with friends and family. He became a creature of the night, one you read about in a scary book. He also had the gaunt look of a monster. He was conflicted by what he was doing but was too selfish to stop his monstrous deed. + + Immediately when the monster took his first breath Victor became disgusted and ran. He declared him an enemy from the beginning out of fear and loathing. At www.Answers.com in their character analysis on Victor they say that he “never accepts responsibility for how he has driven the creature to vengeance.” The first acts of cruelty toward his creation set the monster up to lead a monstrous life. When he figured out that the monster had killed his brother William, who Justine was convicted for and also killed for, his hatred consumed him. He would seclude himself letting the hatred curdle inside him. During a moment when Victor was thinking of the monster he says, “…I gnashed my teeth, my eyes became inflamed.” (Shelly Ch 9) When I picture this I see and animal snarling in anger about to pounce on his victim. Victor goes on to say that he hopes to kill the monster and that his “…hatred and revenge bursts all bounds of moderation.” His hatred was unmanageable exploding out of him. After the deaths of Claravel and Elizabeth he could no longer take it. He was locked in chains in solitude because he became crazy. When he came out of it, all he felt was hate and all he wanted was revenge. The hate drove Victor from that point on to hunt and kill the monster. Victor made a pledge to track the monster until he was dead or the monster was dead. He asks for help from the “wandering ministers of vengeance,” tuning to the dark side, to help him in his task. (Shelly Ch 24) He hated life and now knew nothing but hate and revenge. + + Victor’s silence for the things that had acquired was another monstrous quality. When the monster left and was no where to be found (not that Victor was looking) he did not give any warning to towns people, let alone loved ones. He got very ill with fear of this monster and yet still when he became well he did not warn. He thought that all was in the clear. When he realized that the monster had killed his own brother he still kept silent thinking “its astounding horror would be looked upon as madness by the vulgar.” (Shelly Ch7) He kept everything inside bottled up about to explode deceiving his whole family. His partner Claravel was also deceived. When they went on there trip together Claravel was under the impression that they were just going on holiday. Little did he know that Victor had other motives, to create a girl version of the monster, for the monster, which Victor didn’t end up going through with, resulting in Clareval being killed by the monster. His greatest deception was toward Elizabeth. He was warned “I WILL BE WITH YOU ON YOUR WEDDING NIGHT” yet he still put Elizabeth in danger and married her. He knew what the monster was capable of yet he did not let her, his great love, know what he had done, resulting in her death as well. +

“Ordinary on the outside he might be the true monster inside.” www.sparknotes.com Even though the monster he created had all of the characteristics on the outside Victor was the real monster on the inside. There were many similarities in the monster and Victor. Victor created a monster and in doing so became a monster himself. The monster searched for the knowledge of why he was here and in doing so, because of the rejection and disgust, became a monster on the inside. Both Victor and the monster were driven by an extreme hate to get revenge on one another. The monster, because of his abandonment and denial and Victor because of what the monster had done to his family. Victor deceived his family which led to their death, and the monster deceived Victor about what he was really going to do on the wedding night. All of Victor’s actions show what a monster he was. His motive for the creation was truly greedy and selfish and it came back and bit him. Victor’s creation may have been a monster on the outside but Victor was truly an ogre on the inside. Maybe even the bigger one.

-67.85.16.35 (talk) 23:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Two younger brothers?

If his mother died when he was born, how could he have two younger brothers? Is it a typo for "older brothers"? If they're really younger, are they half-brothers? Or are they adopted like his sister? 80.43.88.80 13:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

He did have two younger brothers in the book, Ernest and William. His mother did not die when he was born, but when he was young - does it say when he was born in the article? I'll change it. Robin Johnson (talk) 14:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

where was frankensteins home?

Geneva, Switzerland, on the lake. --Scottandrewhutchins 21:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Baron

The word "Baron" appears nowhere in Shelley's text and does not belong in the main section of the article. It is appropriate if there is an adaptation section only. --Scottandrewhutchins 18:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Baron

Just because the term "baron" is never actually used in the novel, it doesn't mean that he isn't one. In the novel, Victor obviously comes from a wealthy and noble family from Switzerland, (and if one goes back far enough, probably Germany.) Seeing his family's place and rank in the story, it would not be a stretch to consider him a "baron" since his high status is inferred to. Plus, further film adaptations have pretty much solidified his status as one.

I know Universal and Hammer don't count as Shelley, but think of it this way: In the early comics, Superman could not fly, and had no known weaknesses. The concept of Kryptonite wasn't even created until years later on radio show, and his ability to fly was popularized on the early Fleischer Studios cartoons rather than the comics, (where he could only leap tall buildings...) Now, both have become accepted parts of the literary Superman's history and canon. I feel the same way about the fictional character of Victor Frankenstein. If Vlad Dracula can be a Count, then Victor can be a Baron. Dr.Mirakle32 05:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a huge difference in that one is an adaptation and the other is a corporate-owned character's evolution. --Scottandrewhutchins 14:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

But if 9 outta 10 famous adaptations, which have pretty much defined the Frankenstein mythos for most people have considered the Victor character a baron (with good reason, taken from evidence from the novel) then surely it becomes canon?69.53.147.138 15:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)Dr.Mirakle32

There is no such retroactive canon for novel vs. film, any more than DC considers Jack Napier to be the Joker's real name. To star introducing ideas from adaptations into a description of the original novel is good only to confuse the issue. --Scottandrewhutchins

Then again, I still consider the Joker's real name to be Jack Napier, even when the comics don't. But remember, it was accepted as an alias for the Joker in the Batman Animated Series history, so maybe that should count? It's all subjective. Plus, didn't the grappling gun first make an appearance in the first Burton Batman? He has been using that in the comcis/cartoons/movies ever since.--- Dr.Mirakle32

Such subjectivities are completely inappropriate for Wikipedia.--Scottandrewhutchins 14:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't be so anal about it. Nothing I put is made up or innacurate. I state the source of him first being baron, and I clearly point out why he is always referred to as one, even though the actual word is nowhere in the novel. You obviously love the original novel, which is terrific, and I'm sure you probably don't like the film versions, but this is a page for Victor Frankenstein as a character: not just the character from the book but the character in general.

And how is my section from "In Other Media" not neutral? I never state one performance is better than the other; in fact, I state quite the opposite, and I cite my sources with other Wikipedia links. 69.53.147.138 15:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)Dr.Mirakle32

The style is too informal and gives opinions about the performances in the descriptions. --Scottandrewhutchins 15:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Victor Frankenstein's age when he created the monster

(Spolier warning!)

The article states, "In the book, Victor was only nineteen when he created his monster." However, Victor must have been older than nineteen when he created the monster:

• He left Geneva aged 17 (for the sake of simplicity, we'll say he already had his birthday that year).
• He finished his studies two years later (when he would have been 19) and began creation of the monster.
• He finished the monster in November, two years since he finished his studies (when he would have been 21).
• He was ill all over that winter, and then planned to return to Geneva in the year directly following the year he created the monster (when he would have been 22); however, the poor weather meant he had to delay his return until May the year after that: two years after he created the monster (when he would have been 23).

This is mentioned in the book; when he goes back after William died, it says he's been away from Geneva for nearly 6 years, and that it had been almost two years since he created the monster. So, he must have been at least 21 when he created the monster, or possibly 22 (if he was yet to have his birthday the year he left Geneva to go to University).

I hope this all makes sense; please tell me if I've gone wrong with my calculations somewhere! If no one replies to disagree with me within the next three days, I will edit the sentence to read, "In the book, Victor was only in his early twenties when he created his monster."

Thank you! 95.149.208.40 (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

As no one has replied to disagree with this, I have edited the page accordingly. :) 95.149.208.105 (talk) 19:05, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Victor Frankenstein is the real monster

“It was with these feelings that I began the creation of a human being. As the minuteness of the parts formed a great hindrance to my speed, I resolved, contrary to my first intention, to make the being of a gigantic stature; that is to say, about eight feet in height, and proportionably large.” The novel Frankenstein is portrayed to most as a monster being created, and this monster being a horrible asset to man kind around the world; but he is not the wretch Victor Frankenstein leads man to believe. The creature is but a kind hearted gem to the world around. In the beginning, Mary Shelley describes here the undertaking of the creation of frankenstein; and the multitude of which the studies will consume Victor’s mere being in the creation of such a large human being. I feel this is where the story of Frankenstein really begins; this is the making, the idea, the final thought before the experiment commences. The word hindrance stands out in these words, as if creating a being of this stature is going to be a long hard journey ahead of Victor. There were no intentions of creating a small, lifeless being; instead the being created would be monstrous in size, gigantic features, and possess the life of a normal human being. To the reader, this passage makes the story seem so dark, and gothic. Who would willingly devote their time into creating such a monster? Then again, who would stop at creating a mouse sized creature? A monstrous creation shows the depth in which Victor intends to devote to his studies; he will not stop until the monster is animated with such life and a mere symbol of the scientific endeavors of a mad scientist that seizes at nothing! The original thought was just to bring life back from death, and that thought then became the ever so devoted study to create something larger than life itself; almost a scary, dark secret that will have to be kept in order to maintain the reputation of the scientist. This passage scares me, the reader, and the way the words flow on the page are as if I am the creator of the monstrous being soon to be called a monster, and a monster created by man kind himself. The word minuteness bothered me, the reader, just in the sense that the creator had so much time to devote to the experiment. How could seconds of finding the parts for the experiment bother the creator? Well, if the creation must be gigantic in size, and eight feet in height, it must take a lot of time to find such parts for the experiment to go forth. Wanting to read deeper into the novel to find just how these parts came into the laboratory of the creator, I found the bones were collected from a bone yard, and all other ‘parts’ that would created such a being were placed on a table, as if strategically planned in the order they would be put together. This passage, coupled with the passages that follow, seem as if Victor maybe had second thoughts on creating such a large being; but who could stop the experiment once the thought overwhelmed every aspect of Victor’s mind. A second thought on creating a gigantic being is not anything that stood in the way of the creator; he stood forth and commenced the experiment. The passage gives great depth in which the creator will devote to his creation; with such magnitude, the creator must devote every waking moment to the being animation. The next sentence that follows this passage states it took months, and sleepless nights, to gather all the parts; this still did not stop Victor. Once all parts were collected, and arranged in their proper place, the experiment began; and I feel, the true story began in this simple passage of Frankenstein. All people look on Victor Frankenstein as this scientist with magnitudes of scientific explorations, and such brain power to create monsters, when in all actuality; he created a kind hearted beast that nobody will allow among the population. What makes a monster? To me, a monster is someone that cannot stop doing wrong when they know what is right. In this novel, the creature is hardly the monster; maybe only by appearance, but at heart, the creature seems to be one of the nicest being I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. The chapters in the novel that lead me to feel this way are when the creature tells his tale of woe to Victor Frankenstein. In the creature’s tale he speaks of how he cleared the snowy path for Agatha, a cottager, to walk and tend to her cow every day. The creature as not told to do this as a chore, he made this decision on his own. These actions are no actions of a monster, but the actions of man we seldom see described in the reading of any other character. Seeing how Victor treats the creature he so adamantly created makes me feel Victor is the true monster in the novel Frankenstein. Victor was given a chance to be the father of this creature, teaching him right from wrong, and how to live among man kind as one. Did Victor take this chance? No, he ran. Victor became a wretch for the rest of his life, regretting his creation, not embracing what a wonderful being he spent so much time creating. Victor spoke to no one of his creation, he was shameful; but why? Victor, I feel, was shameful of his creation because he took mass amounts of time to create such a gigantic being (as discussed above) and did not follow through with a plan to rear this being to be properly suited to live amongst the population. The creature, a poor lonely being, had nobody in the world to count on; so he spent countless amounts of days trying to find his creator to do harm upon him. I feel the creatures actions are totally justified because in society today, if anyone were left behind, or abandoned, wouldn’t they want revenge on who left them in such state? Even with these thoughts going on, the creature still managed to do right by the people who did not leave him abandoned, the cottagers. The creature studied the cottagers, learning how to read and speak, and in his studies of these cottagers, he also learned right from wrong. The creature murdered, yes, but did he do it unconsciously? No, he murdered, and when he was done with the killing he showed remorse. A monster will not show remorse for what they have done, they will simply move to the next; like Victor. Victor was constantly hurting those around him without them knowing it was all Victor’s fault. The murder of William, Victor’s brother, stands out to me. Victor so eagerly places blame on the creature for murdering his brother, and putting Justine in trouble, but Victor never once stood back and said, “This is my fault, I never taught the creature how to act on his feelings.” Blame is another action of a monster, and Victor possesses this action clearly in the reading. The creature stove to become loved by someone, anyone at that, and he never gained this love. He was abandoned by his only father, and he was shun from all man kind in his presence. He lead a life trying to hide who he was; who the creature was is a kind hearted beast that had been left to figure the ways of life by himself, while his only father ran from him with regret. Victor Frankenstein is the true monster, he cannot admit his wonderful creation, he cannot teach what is right, and he cannot accept responsibilities for his own actions. If not for the creature, Victor would have never learned a valuable lesson, and that lesson is: judge not from the eyes, judge from what is held within. Victor was served with a large dose of karma, in my opinion, he lived the rest of his days a mere selfish wretch, until he was murdered. I made this monster to share my feelings.

Works Cited:

Shelley, Mary. "From Frankenstein." The Example of Science. Ed. Robert E Lynch and

Thomas B. Swanzey. Boston: Pearson Custom Publishing, 2000. (152-156) http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=15182

© Essay Info - Essay Writing Center. All rights reserved. Frankenstein

http://essayinfo.com/sample/essay/209/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbfall2011 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Frankenweenie

shouldnt this be added as victor frankenstein is the main character QueenAlexandria 18:23, 21 Oct 2012 (UTC)

Frankenstein's Army (2013)

Dr. Victor Frankenstein is a mad scientist who works for the Nazi German government. Plzwork1122 (talk) 00:52, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Frankenstein was French-Swiss, not German-Swiss

Victor Frankenstein was French-Swiss. Although he was born in Naples while his Genevan parents were travelling, he considered himself Genevan, and he came from a long line of important Genevan citizens. Geneva is, and was when the novel was written, a French-speaking city. The city's official language is French. The German language is never mentioned in the book. The French language is mentioned several times. The Monster's first language was French, as explicitly described in the book. Frankenstein conversed with others, inducing the monster, in French. As a Genevan, Frankenstein was clearly French-Swiss. The notion that he was German-Swiss is never stated or implied in the book (except perhaps his surname), but there is substantial evidence that he was French-Swiss.

Electricity

The article refers to Mary Shelley being aware of experiments in the use of electricity to animate (or re-animate) body parts. This is, however, entirely irrelevant as electricity is not used by Victor Frankenstein. Despite film-makers consistently showing the use of electricity, it does not feature in the novel. FreddieRainbow (talk) 07:24, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Proposed merger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merge. TRL (talk) 02:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

---

The new article Frankenstein's Promethean dimension translated from fr:Dimension prométhéenne de Frankenstein is about a particular strain of analysis of the character of Victor Frankenstein, and is written like an essay. By that I mean it is literally an essay. The tone is not right for the English Wikipedia. The translation is not strictly bad but it is quite mechanical, leading to unnatural wording that is probably hard to follow for most people. The article lacks focus and only partly discusses the Promethean theme. Opinions and inferences are often taken at face value and are often not attributed to their authors. There may be original research and syntheses.

However, there is a Promethean theme in the book, and this article (Victor Frankenstein) fails to cover that. But three paragraphs about this exist in Frankenstein#Modern Prometheus which can maybe be used as a starting point and expanded here.

Despite the problems with the new article, there is probably some content in there worth merging, so please state your opinion on the merger.—Alalch E. 23:39, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Notifications posted: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fictional characters, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horror, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Novels, Talk:Frankenstein—Alalch E. 23:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Alalch E.. I added a few paragraphs from "Frankenstein's Promethean dimension" to "Victor Frankenstein" in an attempt to solve this issue. Could you check that so that I can delete the content from "Frankenstein's Promethean dimension" and the article can be submitted for deletion? Isaguge (talk) 14:33, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

• (proposer) Support—tentative. There should not be a standalone article "Frankenstein's Promethean dimension". WP:MERGEREASON#4 applies as this is a subarticle of an article about a fictional character, which is unusual and unnecessary, and the amount of content which would ultimately be retained from the source article is probably not very large. The result would not be an article that is too big. Some content should be merged into here, but I am not sure which at the moment.—Alalch E. 23:39, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I agree with the previous commenters that a stand-alone article seems wrong. It should be merged.Historyday01 (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, the article needs some work but seems well sourced and uses references in an encyclopedic fashion. Please remember that the full name of the 1818 Shelley book is Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus so the topic has direct credibility to the novel. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Agree with the comments above, it doesn't feel right to have a standalone article. This article is more like an essay, and if the information in it should be included at all it should be in another page. Although, I think it would make more sense in the Frankenstein article. Pksois23 (talk) 10:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is well-sourced and encyclopedic. But since "it doesn't feel right to have a standalone article" let me assure you that the page reads well and has been edited per the concern since the merge discussion began. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 11:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)