Talk:Wall of Moms

Source

• https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/parenting/wall-of-moms-protests.html

Haven't incorporated into article yet. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:40, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

"garnered attention and support for their pleas to protect Portland's youth and turning protest slogans into lullabies"

• https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/07/23/wall-of-moms-protests-portland

---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:42, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Los Angeles Times

I can't access the contents of this article, which might be helpful:

• https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-23/worldwide-mothers-protests-against-sensed-injustice

---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Another Believer: Here's an archived copy, in case that's accessible to you: [1] Are you familiar with the Internet Archive: Wayback Machine? If not, you can always search the Internet Archive to see if they have an archived copy, and if they don't, then you can submit an archiving request: https://archive.org/web/ -- FactOrOpinion (talk) 14:59, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

"Mothers and other women have historically joined together for political protest..."

@FactOrOpinion: Your recent addition of "Mothers and other women have historically joined together for political protest in multiple countries, including Argentina (Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo), Cuba (Ladies in White), Mexico, Russia (Soldiers’ Mothers Committee), and Ukraine", having been placed under the "Reactions" header, almost makes it seem like these things happened after Wall of Moms was formed. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I see User:Tedder has also added Raging Grannies to the See also section. So, maybe there's a way we can have a brief summary of historical protests by groups of women? I'm on the fence about how much background is really needed here. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:29, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Another Believer: You're right, I saw "Similar groups" and failed to notice that it was a sub-heading for the "Reactions" sections. We could move that sentence to its own section, but I haven't yet figured out an appropriate header title. Do you have a suggestion? Or I could delete it. If we keep it, I also have to figure out how to better describe these groups; there are clearly a variety of women's groups who've protested historically in various countries (e.g., suffragettes in lots of countries, the Women to Drive movement in Saudi Arabia, the Women's March), but this subset is focused more on protesting abuse/killings/disappearance by law enforcement and the military. -- FactOrOpinion (talk) 21:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

FactOrOpinion, If there's not a direct connection between Wall of Moms and the other groups I'm not sure their mention is necessary. Maybe if sources specifically compared the Wall of Moms to other groups, that'd be worth mentioning? We could also move the groups down into the See also section for now, until we decide if there should be mention of other groups in the article body. I'll let others weigh in as well. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Another Believer: That article (which you'd introduced above, where I noted using the Wayback Machine to see archived copies) links them with a lede that says "The protesters in Portland, Ore., known as the Wall of Moms are among self-identified mothers willing to take lead positions during demonstrations. They’re not the first. In recent decades, mothers across the globe have played significant roles in a variety of conflicts. Whether in opposition to their national governments or challenging other forms of authority such as law enforcement, these women have often been at the forefront of key moments. Here are a few notable examples: ..." And yes, for the groups that have pages, we could just list them under See also. -- FactOrOpinion (talk) 21:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the connection drawn in the LA Times source is sufficient to include this content in the article body. The New York Times also connects the Portland group to similar mobilisations in Armenia, South Africa and Sri Lanka. I'd put it in a "Background" section, which could also include a bit more background on the protests themselves. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Great. I titled it "global antecedents," please change it to "Background" if you prefer that (and perhaps that would be a way to bring the Raging Grannies in -- via subsections for local and global background). I added your citation and a few other countries/groups listed in the "See also" sections for the WP pages of a couple of the groups already listed. -- FactOrOpinion (talk) 23:35, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

FactOrOpinion, OK. I found the content a bit distracting in the center of the page, so I've moved the text into a new Background section along with some other links related to the ongoing protests. I think this background section needs to be expanded further, but this gets the ball rolling. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

AB, My reason for including Grannies was they've been protesting at Floyd, both before the moms formed and since. I really didn't want to put "they were there first", because it isn't the point, but somehow to include them as one of the many blocs that is represented. Connecting it to other historical events is different. tedder (talk) 22:27, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Tedder, Yup, I agree! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Page title

@Tagishsimon: I've moved the page back to Wall of Moms, which is used more often in sourcing. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:26, 29 July 2020 (UTC)