Talk:Webtrends/Archive 1

Comments

Comments for this article and the facts written in it are more than welcome. I have written the content over 2 evenings based on own knowledge and experience using this tool thru the last 4 years. I also use other tools like ClientStep/Omniture, WebSiteStory HitBox, Google Analytics/Urchin etc, and therefore try to maintain objectivity.

I have not copy-pasted from any other site in order to deal with Copyright issues, which also means that some of the facts may be written using other terms to clarify the meaning.

Please comment!

can be contacted on piotr dot narloch at gmail doot com

Piotr Narloch 12:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Low Standard

This article needs a lot of work to make it non-commercial and intelligible, and to improve the English.

--84.9.82.184 21:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I've added the {{cleanup-rewrite}} template. Stephen Turner (Talk) 16:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Not sure of people's motives here, but trust your anti-virus software and remove WebTrends. It is not your job to provide information to people who want to track web activity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.10.193.24 (talk) 20:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Spyware

Someone should add that this is S-P-Y-W-A-R-E. Hosted application? Log analyzer? Sounds like CoolWebSearch with a marketing department. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.39.61 (talk) 23:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

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I'd like to interject something here. WebTrends is in no way, SpyWare, though it has been labeled as such by some adware applications. Without going into extensive detail, there are a couple of points I'd like to make here. 1) WebTrends (in its default configuration, depending on the edition, clients can customize this but it is frowned upon) does NOT, yes I said it does NOT collect or transmit any PII (Personally Identifiable Information). The closest it comes to collecting PII is the client's IP address, which is going to usually be logged in the web server's logs anyway. If anybody feels that there is PII in a WebTrends cookie, I'll be happy to show you that its not (or that it was a customization done by the customer). 2) The cookie stored on your local machine has 1 primary purpose - to differientiate between a new and a returning visitor. While this cookie can store some additional information, this information is limited and again is not PII.

While WebTrends could technically be used to gather questionable information about the user, it would require some rather serious customization rquiring relatively extensive knowledge of the software and client side scripting. There are a few applications that I know of off the top of my head which use WebTrends tracking within them. These applications would have access to PII, but a) I know for a fact that these instances do NOT collect any PII b) These instances are very few and far between due to the cost associated with the development necessary to integrate WebTrends into anything other than a website.

Admittedly, I don't recall this coolwebsearch, however I can take a pretty easy guess on what they did. WebTrends has a couple of functions, primarily they provide a hosted solution and a software solution for tracking website stats. This is no different than Google Analytics, AWStats, Webalizer, etc. WebTrends Analytics can function by reading log files from the web server (like AWStats and Webalizer), or it can use a set of JavaScript functions to make a call to a special logging site (like Google Analytics), and then report on the data received. Thats it.

WebTrends has NO vested interest in what data is returned, or how its customer's interpret or utilize this data.

To directly rebut a few of the comments below:

• "shows two cookies from webtrends: (1) "m.webtrends[2].txt" and (2) "m.webtrends[2].txt:m.webtrends[2].txt.b4xxxxxx"."
  • In this particular case, Yes, WebTrends has placed a cookie on your computer, just like the website that requsted that they do, just like microsoft.com, just like yahoo.com, just like wikipedia.com. This cookie is completely safe and innocous(spelling?). By the fact that the cookie is associated with m.webtrends.com, I can tell you exactly where that cookie came from - one and only one place.

Microsoft Corporation. So if you really look at your cookies, you'll see these from WebTrends, and I'd bet cash money that you'll find a cookie from microsoft.com.

Again, without going into extensive detail, the only reason you see webtrends.com in a cookie value is because the customer using WebTrends is using WebTrends OnDemand (WebTrend's hosted version). Long story short, in order for the cookie to be useful for tracking sessions (i.e. ensuring that visitor A is visitor A, and not visitor AB), the cookie must be issued to a domain that encompasses the logging server. Since almost all OnDemand customers use WebTrends OnDemand logging servers, this cookie must be issued using a webtrends.com domain.

To directly answer your question about AVG identifiying this as threat, I don't have an answer to that. This is a battle that WebTrends has been involved in for quite some time, with limited resolution. admt.com is a domain owned by a somewhat similar company (used extensively by Microsoft for content targeting etc) yet I've never had those come up as a threat. I'm currently running TrendMicro AV and visit many WebTrends tagged sites and never have an issue. I can only guess that since AVG is open source (as far as I recall), that their pattern and definition files are user contributed as well - somebody without a complete understanding created a pattern file thinking that WebTrends was evil.

• "It is spyware at the worse, many people find it difficult to remove from their computers."
  • Well not knowing what was 'on' your computer, I can't say for sure, however I'd put cash on the barrelhead that you can't get rid of the webtrends.com cookies, because you remove them, then shortly thereafter go visit a site thats tagged by WebTrends - thus causing a) another cookie to appear on your machine b) skewing metrics for customers of WebTrends who are trying to figure out how their website is preforming, new vs. returning visitors etc. By doing this you're not resolving your issue, and you're screwing some marketing or web guy - if enough people do this and skew the numbers, some poor guy/or gal you'll never meet may have their job in jeopardy because the data that they are working with and making business decisions on is corrupt - borderline fraudulent.

I am glad to see that there are some people on here who understand what Web Analytics is and what its not. While I havent worked extensively with WebTrends in about a year, if you have legitimate questions, please feel free to [email] me. I think that this page is a prime example that there needs to be more user education on what this type of stuff is, although in my experience most people who are really concerned / complain about this stuff are very non technical and since I'm not a trainer, I'm not sure that I could dumb it down enough for them (no offense to those people, I'm just a hardcore geek and have worked in the internet/web industry for many years - including some extensive work with WebTrends and other Web Analytics applications).

67.190.169.39 (talk) 10:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I also agree, very similar to CoolWebSearch. Can easily be labeled as S-P-Y-W-A-R-E —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.240.195 (talk) 04:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

If that is what you people think, then you think Wikipedia is spyware, since it LOGS YOUR ACTIVITY. All Webtrends does is analyze server log files OR create its own logs. It's not at all similar to CoolWebSearch, which is installed surreptitiously on YOUR own computer, for completely different purposes, and with completely different consequences. If you think that webmasters don't have any right to know how many people visit their site, and which pages they view while there, then you have a pretty militant/radical idea of what privacy you're entitled to. You might as well not use a computer at all. In fact, you might as well not ever even leave the house because somebody might see you. {[Special:Contributions/198.49.180.40|198.49.180.40]] (talk) 18:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

It is spyware at the worse, many people find it difficult to remove from their computers. The last response is awfully vague in what his definition of activity logging is. Sure, it makes sense for websites like wiki to see what you're doing on THEIR site, but they have no right to know what we do somewhere else. 134.48.160.167 (talk) 18:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)G.L.

WebTrends is not on YOUR computer. Unless you bought it and installed it so that YOU can see what people are doing on YOUR site. That's why it's so hard to remove - it's NOT THERE in the first place. 198.49.180.40 (talk) 19:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not an expert in this, but all I know is that every night when my AVG Anti-Virus software runs, in the morning it shows two cookies from webtrends: (1) "m.webtrends[2].txt" and (2) "m.webtrends[2].txt:m.webtrends[2].txt.b4xxxxxx". Webtrends has put something on my computer and AVG Anti-Virus says it is an "infection" and a "potentially dangerous object". I visit sites like The New York Times et al, and I know they put cookies on my computer, but AVG Anti-Virus doesn't consider them to be "infections" or "potentially dangerous objects", so something must be up. Can you explain why AVG Anti-Virus points out the Webtrends cookies? Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.159.186 (talk) 06:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

This is absurd. WebTrends is not "spyware". Spyware sticks in pop-ups, slows down your computer, or worse, tries to steal your identity. WebTrends looks at a log of activity on your site and makes graphs so you can figure out which pages get used. It's a glorified hit-counter and the cookies are just used to help it understand if it was one "device" hitting the page 100 times or 100 "devices" hitting the page 1 time. It doesn't care who you are, that's what surveys and authenticated logins are for. I seriously suggest that people learn to focus their paranoia in the right direction, "real spyware" and away from things like WebTrends that ultimately make the internet better by looking at aggregate usage for the owners purpose on an individual site basis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.2.9 (talk) 22:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I might be a little late but how exactly does that make "the internet better"? Also please can you tell us what "real spyware" is? I have the definition of spyware, and it sounds to me like what WebTrends does. "Software that collects information about a person or organization without their knowledge or informed consent and reports such data back to a third party." Is that not what WebTrends does?

198, what seperates WebTrends from Wikipedia is that Wikipedia isn't a program that is designed solely for the purpose of giving information to a third party about our viewing habits. WebTrends itself doesn't care what you're viewing, the companies that use WebTrends do. It's not so much though that WebTrends is gathering data to help companies, but rather that they are doing it without our knowledge. At least let us choose if we wish to partake in it. Sure you can just avoid the sites, but how would a novice know it's even on their computer and to know which sites do that at that? AjaaniSherisu (talk) 03:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Webtrends is analytics software. Webtrends is no more spyware than Google Analytics or other analytics software. The difference is that you can refuse their cookies by adjusting your browser's security settings. Spyware doesn't respect your preferences. Metafluence (talk) 05:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)