Wikipedia

Talk:West Virginia Mountaineers football/GA1

< Talk:West Virginia Mountaineers football
Latest comment: 12 years ago by Green-eyed girl in topic GA Review

GA Review

edit
Latest comment: 12 years ago19 comments1 person in discussion
GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Green-eyed girl (talk · contribs) 01:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

I'm not terribly active on Wikipedia any longer, but I had to dive in and take the review for this article. Did the nominator commit some sort of offense? Because otherwise waiting nearly four months for a review is downright inexcusable. Especially when other article reviews are initiated mere hours after the nomination goes through. That's just insulting to this nominator.

Review to follow. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 01:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

Very large, detailed article. Did this also perhaps repel reviewers? :S I will go section-by-section

Lead
  • West Virginia University (colloquially referred to as "WVU") Wikipedia doesn't do colloquial. Just change "colloquially" to "also" and it should be fine, though, considering WVU is a perfectly reasonable abbreviation. If headed to FAC (I always keep that in the back of my mind as a possible eventuality), reviewers there may ask you to strike this, or to consistently favor usage of one or the other ("West Virginia" or "WVU") in the body text, but I won't.
  • The Mountaineers will join the Big 12 Conference as of July 1, 2012. This sucks, and I hate it, too, but this is a WP:CRYSTAL violation. You are reporting as fact an unknown and unknowable future. Yes - I know that the move is widely reported and it would probably take the complete obliteration of the athletic program for it not to happen, but the fact is we don't yet know that it has happened. So this needs to be are scheduled to join the Big 12 Conference
  • West Virginia is the 14th winningest Is "winningest" a word? (My Firefox doesn't seem to think so) If it is, this still needs to be hyphenated (second-best, third-fastest, etc...)
  • Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) Do this the first time you use the FBS abbreviation - not the second.
  • West Virginia has produced one undefeated season in its history, going 10-0-1 in 1922 Undefeated means no losses and no ties. If you have no losses along with ties, you are unbeaten, not undefeated.
  • West Virginia is one of only three FBS programs to have won at least nine games in each of the past seven seasons Filed again under the heading of "I know it sucks and I hate it too," but this statement needs to be made timeless. The textbook way of doing that is with an "As of" clause. The idea behind it being if the statement becomes untrue at some point in the future, it will still be accurate with the "as of" wording. Yes, I know you'll be there to update it the second it happens to no longer be true, but them's the rules, unfortunately. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 02:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
Early years (1891–1920)
  • Repeated usage of humble beginning. Definitely revise at least one, and I'd suggest revising both as this reads extremely informal and 'colloquial.'
  • The 1904 season may well be the most intriguing in Mountaineer history, as WVU posted a 6-3 overall record despite losing to Penn State, Pitt, and Michigan by a combined score of 217-0.[14] There's gotta be a non-POV way of getting this point across. [14] is simply an historical schedule without any textual prose, so 'intriguing' is indeed unsupported. And is it really so intriguing, anyway? Evidently those three teams were das uberpowerhouses. That's what I gather from it, anyway.
  • The 1908-20 period saw Only use the word "saw" with things that have eyes. Revise.
  • Lueder's Mountaineers produced a 17-13-3 record In the lead, an endash is used for won/lost records. I'm not sure which is correct (I suspect the endash), but consistency is paramount.

Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 05:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

First glimpses of success (1921–49)
  • The 1920s were indeed "roaring" for the Mountaineers Much too informal
  • Hey, proper use of 'unbeaten' here. Good! ;p
  • Offensive tackle Russell Meredith garner first-team All-American honors. Li'l typo here.
  • Spears produced an impressive 30–6–3 record with the Mountaineers.[17] [17] is again just rote statistics, so 'impressive' is a POV statement.
  • who took over the coaching reigns The expression is take over the reins (although "free reign" is indeed that, with the G. English is fun, no?)
  • a 1923 All-American End Try to avoid consecutive wikilinks like this. They make it appear to the reader that 1923 All-American End is the linked term. I'd revise to something like an end who gained All-American status with the Mountaineers in 1923 wikilinking the terms as appropriate.
  • Similarly with offensive tackle Joe Stydahar. How about Joe Stydahar, an offensive tackle.
  • Running back Harry Clarke paved the way for the Mountaineers that season What does "paved the way" mean? Led the way? Why not just say that?
From regional to national (1950–69)
  • Known by his peers as an exceptional recruiter and by his players as a "father figure," Why the scare quotes?
  • Lewis's Mountaineer teams held true to form, experiencing its most consistent success during the 1950s as it ever had previously. This sentence is a little jarring. You start out with a plural subject Mountaineer teams but then the possessive adjective in the second clause is singular its.
  • After forgettable campaigns in 1950 and '51, the 1952 season brought West Virginia its first winning season since 1948. Abbreviating '51 looks a little informal, and the season didn't bring West Virginia anything - the players and, by extension, the team did. Similar sort of deal with the "saw" wordage.
  • When West Virginia defeated Pitt 17-7 to open the 1953 season, the program was off an running. ?? I cannot make sense of this statement.
  • the Mountaineers finished with a 8–2 record, its first SoCon championship, Plural, then singular again.
  • The 1954 edition of the Mountaineers also finished the regular season with a 8–1 mark, losing its only game If you rectify the above by changing its to their, you should do the same here as well. If you rectify the above by changing "the Mountaineers" to "West Virginia" or "WVU," then no revision is needed with this sentence as it will flow naturally (if a bit awkwardly).
  • Despite winning its second consecutive SoCon title, and earning a #12 ranking in the AP Poll, the Mountaineers Seriously, is this a way people write? Because it is jarring as hell as I read it.
  • Despite its disappointing finish, 1955 Mountaineer team produced two All-American offensive linemen Just want to point out that this sentence comes across absolutely fine.
  • VMI earned the title with a 9–0–1 overall record and 6-0 Again, dash consistency, especially evident when the two usages are this close together.
  • As irony would have it, the 1958 season brought the Mountaineers its first losing season in eight years, but their 4–0 record in SoCon play earned the program its 5th conference title in six seasons. Anthropomorphic language again (revise to something like in 1958, the Mountaineers had their first losing season in eight years) and what does the introductory clause give us? Just an informal feel, as I read it.
  • 1958 would be the final season that West Virginia would win a conference championship under his tenure. Don't use the conditional in place of the simple past. Just use 1958 was
  • making him the winningest coach in Mountaineer history at the time (now 3rd overall) Again with "winningest," spell out numbers less than ten (unless they mark numeral quantities like wins and losses, that usage is fine), and make the statement timeless.
  • The Mountaineers were simply embarrassed by their opponents, being outscored 40-259 on the season.[33] Again, [33] is just rote statistics, so 'embarrassed' either needs a cite or it needs to be gone. 'Outclassed' would work fine here, that's amply supported by the cite.
  • Despite its undefeated conference record, once again the SoCon crown eluded the Mountaineers Another one.
  • West Virginia would not have to wait long for its next SoCon title Did not have to wait long.
  • in the 1964 and '65 seasons consecutively Again, comes across quite informal to abbreviate the year like that.
  • You use "thereafter" a lot, and I'm pretty sure "afterward" would work better in all cases.
  • West Virginia would depart the Southern Conference Departed. It has already happened, no need for the conditional.
  • Carlen's Mountaineers would produce subsequent winning seasons in 1968 and '69 Sorry if this feels like I'm beating a dead horse, I just want to make sure no usages slip through the cracks.
  • The '69 Mountaineers were led Instead of typing out the complete year here, I would just strike it altogether. They are the most recently referred to team in the text, so we know which edition of the club is being discussed.
  • Braxton's performance remains a WVU single season record for rushing yards amongst fullbacks Again, timeless phrasing please.
  • The Mountaineers responded by hiring Bobby Bowden, ushering in the 1970s and a new era of WVU football. Again, too editorial and informal with that last clause. Anyone reading the article will now read about the 1970s, so it's really not necessary to 'preview' it in any way, and the phrasing just does not come across as encyclopedic. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
Top of the mountain to the bottom of the holler (1970–79)
  • What the heck does that even mean?
  • The Bobby Bowden era of West Virginia Mountaineer football couldn't have begun more swimmingly No contractions allowed outside of direct quotations, and ugh, swimmingly? That is not encyclopedic.
  • Despite the disappointment of the Pitt defeat, West Virginia would go on to finish 8-3 in 1970. "Went on to finish," or just "finished" And dash consistency.
  • The Mountaineers continued their winning ways under Bowden in 1971 and '72 I think maybe it's written like this because that's somebody would verbally read it. But that also marks the usage as informal.
  • This one's a little tricky, but The 1972 West Virginia team earned its first trip back to a bowl game in three years doesn't work. The 1972 team didn't go to a bowl three years prior, but the West Virginia program did.
  • The season also witnessed the offensive prowess Anthropomorphic
  • Buggs, meanwhile, was an offensive dynamo. But...he scored less than Marbury did. So was Marbury not a 'dynamo' (and I'm not sure we want that word anyway) also?
  • The 1973 and '74 seasons Horse carcass is finely mashed, now.
  • however, were not kind to the Mountaineers How could they be? Football seasons do not have emotions or virtues.
  • The 1975 season, however, was very kind to West Virginia and Bobby Bowden. Again
  • game-winning field goal in the dying seconds How do seconds die when they were never alive? Closing seconds, maybe? Final seconds?
  • Bowden would later describe My old English teacher used to call these deadwood words. Words that are just there, adding no understanding or meaning. "Would" is nearly always a deadwood word (oddly enough).
  • In just six seasons with the Mountaineers Bowden produced a 42-26 record, good for 5th all-time in the program. Comma after Mountaineers, and spell out fifth.
  • The program's futility would reach a new low in 1978
  • The Mountaineers produced another 5-6 finish, losing its first three games and later dropping three out of their final four games This might be the best example of the inconsistency of grammatical number throughout - you have a plural subject ("the Mountaineers"), a singular possessive adjective ("its") and then a plural possessive adjective ("their")!
  • standout quarterback and current Athletic Director Oliver Luck Just change "current" to "future"
  • having to follow in the footsteps of the great Bobby Bowden Interestingly, the caption of the photo for Bowden gives the necessary context for this, but nothing in the article prose does. I suppose it's still okay, but I might try to work Bowden's eventual career record into the body prose.
  • Cignetti's tenure with the Mountaineers will likely retain its distinction as one of the most forgettable ones in the program's history. Ciiitation needed? "Forgettable" seems an awkward word anyway when you've just spent two paragraphs detailing it. Ignominious, maybe? Undistinguished? Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 02:28, 24 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
The Nehlen feelin'
a rise in prominence (1980–90)
  • Yet another editorial-sounding subject header. Rather see this as something more simple and declarative, like Nehlen's arrival, and a rise in prominence (1980–90) Same point, and it doesn't look so editorial.
  • Mountaineer Field, the program's current home stadium Just want to point out that this usage is OK, because a home stadium is a heck of lot more permanent than a mere statistical streak. Don't overlook this if and when they do get a new stadium, though ;p
  • Nehlen brought sweeping change to the Mountaineer football program, going so far as to implement a new logo and color scheme that remains in use to this day. Most importantly, Nehlen brought a winning attitude to Morgantown and demanded that his players and coaching staff follow suit. AGF'ing that that's all supported by [54]. Some...fairly haughty stuff in there.
  • The result would forever change the culture of Mountaineer football Conditional again
  • Continued hyphen/dash inconsistency.
  • the Mountaineers rolled to a 9-2 record Again editorial. Just use finished with a 9-2 record
  • Nehlen's '82 Mountaineers Horse carcass, though again, this team is designated as the subject earlier in the paragraph. No real need to repeat the year at all. You might say something these Mountaineers so the reader doesn't lose focus, though.
  • also produced its first Consensus All-American I'd go with the program's first Consensus All-American here. Avoids the grammatical number confusion and the idea that the 1982 team could have had All-Americans in past seasons.
  • West Virginia started the '84 season Carcass.
  • with an impressive 7-1 record The nearest cite is just a rote schedule, so "impressive" probably should go. Or you could revise to something more neutral, such as "strong" or "successful" (these are more factual descriptors).
  • West Virginia went on a two-year drought in 1985 and '86
  • The shortcomings of those seasons came to a head in 1987, where a young, promising Mountaineer team endured a season of growing pains and near-misses. Revise.
  • The near-misses of 1987 gave way to the 1988 season, a season that will live on as one of the greatest in Mountaineer history. Definitely needs a citation, and axe "live on." Just go with something like a season popularly considered among the greatest in Mountaineer history, with a citation to back up that claim.
  • The 1988 edition of the Mountaineers was one for the ages, Same problem, but doubly so since this is entirely redundant. You don't need to make the same claim twice in consecutive sentences, even when it's the end of one paragraph and the beginning of the next.
  • The fanhood shines through in this paragraph with prose that would be great for a website about football, but not so much for a general-interest encyclopedia. Phrases like breezed through its schedule and It was there that the magical run would come to an end and hit a wall against the Irish defense need to be toned down a little.
  • The Mountaineers would suffer another heartbreaking result Conditional past, POV statement.


I haven't got a lot of time tonight (sorry), so just a couple of quick technical things. There are 2 dab links in the article, please fix. None of the images have ALT text. It's not required for GA (though it should be), so I can't hold the article back if you don't add it, but I do strongly encourage it. It is required for FA, if thinking of heading there. External links all look good. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 06:28, 25 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

And we're back

Continued progress (1991–2001)
  • The Mountaineers put together a slew of exciting victories That's a bit editorial.
  • beginning with a 36–34 upset of #17 Louisville in Morgantown. This is actually the first time Morgantown is mentioned in the body prose. Idiotproof this a little - I'd add "at home" before "in Morgantown."
  • With a Big East title and possible trip to the National Championship Game on the line Was the national championship game a monolithic thing like it is now? As I understand it, and I could be way off (what I know about football might fill a thimble, but barely :p ), the BCS National Championship Game was designed to be very different from past systems, where it was not exactly clear who would be playing for the national championship and when. All this is simply to say I'm not sure it should be capitalized; makes it look like a proper noun when I don't think, for that era at least, it was one.
  • to cap another thrilling 17–14 victory. Again, lovely writing for a football website, but not an encyclopedia.
  • The Bowl Coalition system, designed to place the top two ranked teams in the National Championship Game, slotted the Mountaineers at #3 behind 11–1 Florida State. Remember what I said about the thimble? ;)
  • Unfortunately for Nehlen, the 1993 season would be his final season with double-digit victories There's the conditional in place of the simple past again
  • Marc Bulger set two WVU records with 3,607 yards passing and 31 touchdown passes, while Amos Zereoué amassed 1,462 yards rushing No need to give their full names again, they were both referred to and linked in the previous paragraph.
Golden era (2002–present)
  • Seems editorial, but I'll read on and give it a chance.
  • Despite losing its bowl game, West Virginia finished with a 9–4 record and was ranked in both the Coaches' (#20) and AP (#25) polls for the first time since 1993. Surely you mean to say the final polls, right?
  • West Virginia rebounded, however, and in similar fashion to the previous season reeled off seven consecutive victories Similar phrasing, too ;\ In the interests of WP:Brilliant prose, how about revising this one to "in a similar fashion to the previous season, they recorded seven wins in a row"
  • West Virginia, ranked #10 in the AP Poll to begin the season, raced to a 8–1 record. Editorial again. Ahh, I hate this, I wish we could write this way. Also an 8-1 record.
  • Most importantly, West Virginia's squandered its opportunity to win the Big East outright POV statement, and that extraneous 's sticks out.
  • The disappointing season drew to a close with 30–18 loss to Florida State in the Gator Bowl, giving WVU a 8–4 record. I bet you could find a cite for "disappointing."
  • After a 5–1 (albeit unimpressive) Does this mean "against lesser competition" ? If so, say that.
  • the Mountaineers came alive in Week 7 against #19 Louisville. Quarterback Pat White and running back Steve Slaton cut loose on the Cardinal defense I don't know what any of that means.
  • to a thrilling 46–44 triple overtime victory.[87] Yay, a citation that directly backs up a POV statement. :D
  • West Virginia jumped on the Bulldogs with 21 points in the 1st quarter and never looked back, stunning Georgia with a 38–35 victory. Could use a citation, and the wording seems a bit "huh?" to me. They scored 21 points early but only wound up winning by 3? How does that equate to "never looked back" ? This can probably all be made clearer.
  • The Mountaineers once again posted 11 wins in the 2006 season, narrowly missing out on another Big East championship after losses to Louisville and South Florida. The Mountaineers produced another triple-overtime thriller with a 41–39 victory over #13 Rutgers in the final game of the regular season. West Virginia remained ranked in the top 15 in both polls throughout the season, earning another New Year's Day bowl game as they met Georgia Tech in the Gator Bowl. The Mountaineers came away with another 38–35 victory, winning consecutive bowl games for the first time since the 1983 and 1984 seasons None of this has a citation. The only citation in the paragraph is for rushing statistics, the last sentence in the paragraph.
  • The 2007 season may well be regarded as the most infamous season in West Virginia football history. Citation needed.
  • "Leave no doubt tonight. Leave no...doubt...tonight. No doubt they shouldn’t have played the 'Old Gold and Blue.' Not. This. Night."

- Bill Stewart's locker room speech prior to the Fiesta Bowl vs. Oklahoma. All direct quotations need conspicuous citations.

  • The 2009 season culminated in another nine-win season Ehh, clunky. The season culminated in a season?
  • exacted a measure of revenge with a thrilling upset victory Revenge for what, and both POV statements either need support or to be gone.
  • The 2009 season culminated in another nine-win season and second place finish in the Big East for the Mountaineers. Most notably, WVU ended its two-year losing streak in the Backyard Brawl and exacted a measure of revenge with a thrilling upset victory over #8 Pitt on Tyler Bitancurt's game-winning 43-yard field goal in the closing seconds. West Virginia's season ended on a sour note, however, as it lost the Gator Bowl to a 6–6 Florida State team in Bobby Bowden's final game. The 2010 season brought the program its third consecutive nine-win season. Nonetheless, the season was ultimately a disappointment for the Mountaineers. Despite assembling arguably the strongest defense in program history (surrendering only 176 total points, an average of 13.5 per game) and having a talented offense, West Virginia struggled with consistency all season. The Mountaineers lost to #15 LSU, Syracuse and UConn by a combined 14 points, while the Mountaineer defense did not surrender more than 23 points scored against in a single game throughout the season. None of this has a citation.
  • Luck reasoned that he didn't believe that the Mountaineers had an opportunity to win a national championship with the program under Stewart's guise. Gotta nix the contraction.
  • The Mountaineers were the only Big East team ranked in the final BCS Poll The BCS isn't a poll, is it? It's a ranking based on a number of factors (among them the polls). So it would be more accurate to say they were the only Big East team in the final BCS rankings.
  • the Mountaineers trounced Clemson 70–33, setting a NCAA record for points scored in a bowl game. Editorial again. Just replace "trounced" with something like "soundly defeated." Much more formal, gets the same point across.
  • Starting in 2012, West Virginia will compete in the Big 12 Conference for the first time in its history. Just like the lead. They are to compete in the Big 12 Conference, but we really need to not use "will" statements. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 06:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
Mountaineer Field
  • along with "neutral-site" games at numerous locations throughout West Virginia, Again with the scare quotes. If neutral site means something other than neutral site, that bears explaining if it can be done gracefully.
  • led to the relocation of the football program to the "new" Mountaineer Field in 1980. Even more confused by the quotes here. It is the new Mountaineer Field, so.....the quotes?
  • Since 1980, WVU football has called the second incarnation of Mountaineer Field home. Revise if you're looking to meet the FA standard of brilliant prose. This exact phrasing is used in the previous paragraph about the old stadium.
  • Due to Mountaineer Field's capacity and the relatively smaller populations of West Virginia's largest cities, it has been suggested that Morgantown becomes the largest "city" in the state on game days due to the influx of spectators at the stadium. That's a fascinating factoid. Needs a citation, though. I think the quotes work okay in this instance ;p Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 06:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
Milan Puskar Center
Capterton Indoor Facility
Traditions
  • Ehhhh, bulleted lists. FA reviewers will ask you to refactor this section.
  • forming of the state of West Virginia whilst playing the university fight song "Whilst" is chiefly British in usage. It's not necessarily wrong, but it sure sticks out like a sore thumb.
  • The "Pregame show" paragraph has no citations.
  • The Mountaineer mascot first appeared at WVU sporting events during the 1934-35 school year Endash there. I suspect you went ahead of me when I was away for a couple days and changed most of the other hyphens to endashes, because I suddenly stopped having that to point out as I went on ;p
  • The Mountaineer is selected each year by the Mountain Honorary – West Virginia University's senior honorary. Is there anything you can link to here, because this sentence is gibberish to me.
  • walk along the pathway dividing the Blue Lot and the Light Blue Lot outside of Mountaineer Field. What are those? Parking lots? I might just say that, then.
Logos and uniforms
  • The "Flying WV" is the trademark logo for West Virginia Mountaineer football But why is it boldfaced?
  • widely recognized logos in collegiate athletics.[117]. Little surplus punctuation there.
  • Having worn a gold jersey sparingly over the course of its history (namely during the 1960s), West Virginia reintroduced its gold alternate jersey prior to the 2007 season. The uniforms were first worn against Mississippi State for the 2007 homecoming game, as well as for West Virginia's first official "Gold Rush" game against Louisville. The gold jersey continues to be utilized as part of both an alternate home and away uniform. None of this has a citation, and what is a "Gold Rush" game?
Rivalries
  • No remarks for any of the three subheads except some editorial phrasing at the very end of the last one - Much less competitive, but no less meaningful, was the one-sided series between West Virginia and Penn State. The schools once met annually from 1947 to 1992 with the Nittany Lions holding a stranglehold in the series Cite for meaningful? And revise "stranglehold" Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 07:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
Remainder of article

Only sparing prose among lists, I'll lump all the rest of it together.

  • With 149 victories, Don Nehlen is the winningest coach in Mountaineer history I noticed you revised "winningest" in the lead, so how about here, too?
  • Head coach Dana Holgorsen and the offensive coaching staff enter their 2nd season at WVU, while the defensive staff is entirely revamped for the upcoming 2012 season. Spell out second, and, uh...make this sure this doesn't age. I'm not sure if there's a graceful way of making it timeless, though I think FA reviewers may ask for it. Just...keep an eye on it, like I'm sure you will.
  • the Mountaineers have participated in 13 "major" Division I-A/FBS bowl games, including three BCS Bowl Games, one Bowl Coalition Game and one National Championship Game. What exactly does "major" mean here? I assumed the forthcoming list would reveal it, but that only adds up to five games.
  • Names highlighted in Gold denote award winners. This fails accessibility guidelines, as a vision-impaired reader won't get this meaning if using a device like a screen reader. This is why you usually see things denoted by a color and a symbol. I can't require you to do this for GA, but FA absolutely will.
  • Other instances of same, later on in the article.
  • Got the issue with consecutive wikilinks again in the "Pro Football Hall of Fame" section. And why are the players' names boldfaced?

And that about wraps it up. Whew! Massive article, and as such there were a great many sniveling little things to point out, but honestly the article was in pretty good shape before we even started. Well on its way to a pass. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 07:11, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply


Keep this page in mind, because not everything I've pointed out was revised. It may help to refer back to this if headed further down the chain, and to think of this like a Peer Review. That said, my remarks went well above and beyond the GA standard, so the article most certainly meets it now. Will pass. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 17:04, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

Add topic
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:West_Virginia_Mountaineers_football/GA1&oldid=494642015"