Talk:World Martial Arts Masterships

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by BlueMoonset (talk) 19:57, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

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* ... that the 2019 Chungju World Martial Arts Masterships feature 3,119 martial artists from 106 countries who compete in 20 different martial arts areas over 275 medals?

• ALT1: ... that the 2019 Chungju World Martial Arts Masterships is the largest international martial arts competition to date?
• ALT2 ... that the 2019 Chungju World Martial Arts Masterships is the only international martial arts competition in the world?
• ALT3: : ... that the World Martial Arts Masterships are the largest international martial arts competition to date?
• Reviewed: Exempt-fewer than 5 DYK credits (this is my 2nd dyk)

Created by Taewangkorea (talk). Self-nominated at 12:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC).

• @Taewangkorea: While DYK requirements appear to be met (with the full review to follow soon), I have some reservations about the hook. Specifically, while those numbers are impressive and arguably interesting, I'm not sure if it's unique enough since as far as I can tell several sporting events have similar numbers of events and participants. We could still go with it if nothing else can be suggested, but for now it might be a good idea to try thinking of other alternative options. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:30, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Is there a source that talks about this being the most participated martial arts event? Sheer numbers mean very little. 3,000 could be a very small number for participant at an event. Is there anything particularly notable for a regular reader here? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski and Narutolovehinata5: Perhaps ALT1? Taewangkorea (talk) 17:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

I suppose ALT1 is more promising, but the Korean source provided (based on Google Translate) seems to be vague on whether or not it was the biggest to date, or simply the biggest this year or the biggest iteration of the WMA Masterships. More importantly, the article seems to have a promotional tone and in some parts (such as in section two) reads more like an advertisement than a Wikipedia article. The article would thus need to be rewritten to tone down the writing. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:21, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I have rewritten quite a bit of the article, including the 2nd section, so that it would be less promotional. As for the Korean sourcing, the source for ALT1 says that it is the biggest to date, but Google translate makes it really more vague. If you do not think that this would be enough, I have attached an ALT2 with a source that is more clear through Google Translate (but I still prefer ALT1). Thanks, Taewangkorea (talk) 05:57, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

I think ALT1 is more accurate since if I recall correctly there are also other international martial arts tournaments, if not general then at least for specific sports. The article looks better now, but I was wondering if a separate article could be written for the WMAM as a whole since a large chunk of the article (i.e. the first section) discusses the tournament as a whole more than this specific 2019 iteration. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:19, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Ok. I have crossed out ALT2 now. Do you think the article on the world martial arts masterships in general would be part of the review? It is because as I have several (~3) articles to create on my to do list (If creating said article would be part of the review, I could create it first) Taewangkorea (talk) 04:42, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

It's an optional step and the nomination can still pass without it being done, I just found it strange that almost half of the article seems to discuss the tournament's history as a whole instead of just the 2019 event. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 04:43, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I will try to create such an article in the future after completing my current drafts I am writing. Is there any concerns with the requirements for DYK that you see? Taewangkorea (talk) 04:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: i.e. Do you think it is good to go for DYK? Taewangkorea (talk) 05:46, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

The second section could probably still be tweaked further to make it sound less promotional. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I am kind of stuck. Could you provide some advice on how to make it more neutral? Taewangkorea (talk) 21:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

As a start, I'd suggest rewriting the part that goes Korean cultural experience sessions available for the competitors before and during the mastership have been held. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:06, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I have replaced that part with another piece of info from the same source. Anything else? Taewangkorea (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The History section is a bit confusing. Is this part talking about world combat masterships as a whole, or just the one for Chungju? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 22:22, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I intended it to provide a background leading up for the Chungju masterships. Taewangkorea (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

If that's the case, I wonder if it might be a better idea (for now) to rewrite the article into being on the Chungju masterships as a whole (and do the appropriate article move) while keeping the other section as one focusing on 2019. Because right now, despite the article title, it seems to be more about the masterships as a whole instead of specifically the 2019 event. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 20:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I have done that, and did the appropriate move. I also added some stuff on the 2016 competition in the article for the World Martial Arts Masterships. I have also changed the hook to ALT3 to reflect the change. Taewangkorea (talk) 01:08, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm almost ready to review the article, but reading through the news article translation, it appears to be a press release of some kind? I understand that the article is by (or at least published by) Yonhap, but considering the tone, I wonder if a second independent source for the statement could be found. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

• Pinging -revi for feedback as they're a native Korean speaker and may be able to help out in other aspects. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:05, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

  It would be ideal if nom can find additional citations supporting the arguments but it doesn't look like a verbatim press release per se (there are other sources that just posted the press release) so if they can't find it I think it would be fine. — regards, Revi 10:16, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I tries to look for reliable sources that sound less promotional while containing similar stuff, but I was not able to find it. I guess this will be fine as revi said? Taewangkorea (talk) 00:36, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Normally I would, but due to the source article having a somewhat promotional tone (regardless of whether or not it's promotional), I'm not really comfortable with totally saying yes. I'd like to hear second opinions from other editors on the source's suitability first (I'll follow with the full article review later). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:38, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

In addition, the "Background" section may still need to be copyedited a bit, to clarify that the Chungju masterships and the World Combat Games are two separate events, and that the start was referring to the WCG. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:12, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I have done a bit of a copyedit and I also posted info about the discussion in the DYK talk page to seek others' opinions. Hope this will attract some people. Taewangkorea (talk) 04:36, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

@Taewangkorea and Narutolovehinata5: I think it would be useful to include some English-language sources in the article. Per WP:NONENG, "Citations to non-English reliable sources are allowed on the English Wikipedia. However, because this project is in English, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available and of equal quality and relevance." A Google News search on "2019 Chungju World Martial Arts Masterships" shows over 250 results, although perhaps only the first 4 pages are genuine results (eg, not just finding the phrase as a headline). They are not all in English, but many are. I noticed some sources found through a quick general Google search including the word 'largest' that say either the 2016 masterships were the largest, or the 2019 is/was, but they do seem to be either not independent or rather promotional. You may find others, though. RebeccaGreen (talk) 09:33, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5 and RebeccaGreen: I think that a lot of the English sources are less independent and reliable than the Korean sources, which is why I used the Korean source. Additionally, the Korean source from Yonhap is the only source describing that the 2019 masterships were the largest, which I think is the most interesting. Also, sorry for my late reply-I was quite busy with a lot of stuff Taewangkorea (talk) 16:54, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

• Article is long enough, new enough, and adequately sourced. The article issues that have been raised in the article have mostly been resolved, although the wording in the "Background" section could still be worked on further. No close paraphrasing was found. ALT3 is sourced and I am assuming good faith for the Korean source. No QPQ needed for editor with less than five DYK credits. As I still have some reservations about the the reliability of the Korean source (as per my comments above), I am requesting another editor to sign this off. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:27, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

• @Taewangkorea: I also feel that the source which says that this was the largest is promotional. It was published on 25 July 2019, over a month before the games started on 30 August 2019. It does sound like a press release, or at any rate an attempt to talk up the games. It concerns me too that only one source has been found which says that the games were the largest. Other sources (including from Yonhap, eg World martial arts competition wraps up [1]) give numbers, but don't claim it was the largest - so I am not sure how reliable that claim is.

Also, I am not sure if the article currently meets WP:DYKSG D7: "There is a reasonable expectation that an article—even a short one—that is to appear on the front page should appear to be complete and not some sort of work in progress. Therefore, articles which include unexpanded headers are likely to be rejected. Articles that fail to deal adequately with the topic are also likely to be rejected." This article doesn't have any unexpanded headers, but it also doesn't tell us which disciplines were included, and only gives information about the top two nations. The 2019 games had 3 more disciplines and 25-26 more participating countries than the 2016 games, but we don't learn which they were. I would expect to have all 20 disciplines listed (it would also be interesting to see which countries won most medals in which disciplines).

I have just been looking at the official website, which has a page of overall medal rankings, and I notice that the information in this article about the number of medals won by Korea is not correct. The article says "Turkmenistan finished at first place with 19 medals, followed by South Korea with 17." The source actually says "The second place is Korea (Gold 7, Silver 7, Bronze 17)", and those are the numbers on the official website too. But then I am confused by another source [2], which says that Vietnam won 18 medals overall (5 gold, 6 silver and 7 bronze), whereas the official ranking page says Vietnam won 2 gold, 2 silver and 1 bronze, so maybe that source isn't reliable ....

Also, the Yonhap article I linked to says that there were "271 gold medals in 20 martial arts", and the source in this Wikipedia article for the number of medals appears to say "275 gold medals in 20 sports". This article, however, says "20 different martial arts areas over 275 medals", so I'm confused about how many medals there were in total, and how many gold medals ... So, there are questions about the article, hook and source - Taewangkorea, are you able to fix these problems? RebeccaGreen (talk) 07:26, 25 October 2019 (UTC) (Edited RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC))

I will try to fix some problems within the next few days. Taewangkorea (talk) 17:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

• @Taewangkorea: Have the issues been addressed? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:08, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

• Narutolovehinata5, there have been no further edits to the article since mine of 25 October, although Taewangkorea has been active in other areas. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:41, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

• @Taewangkorea: Thank you for your work on the article. Unfortunately, as this is the second-oldest active nomination and progress has been slow, the nomination may be marked for closure if the issues aren't resolved soon. Please return to the article and make the requested changes, thanks. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:10, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, currently I do not have the time to work on this article so I am withdrawing my nomination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taewangkorea (talk • contribs) 17:39, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

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