Talk:Yaroslav Hunka scandal/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

First line

Shouldn't he be labelled as a Ukrainian-Canadian instead of just Ukrainian? Emkut7 (talk) 21:17, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

This man was with the SS

Correct this entry. He fought with the Nazis. He was with the SS. 2601:600:8F00:9D60:1F22:122B:4826:3AB3 (talk) 05:58, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Stop Feigning Ignorance

First paragraph. It was not later revealed. It was always known. It was also more than just affiliated. 108.179.18.26 (talk) 14:59, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Why give Putin the PR win? We will have to lie through our teeth on this one. 177.41.205.136 (talk) 17:03, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a source for war propaganda - it is a source for factual information. 71.218.115.210 (talk) 19:07, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 September 2023

Request to add a sentence in the first paragraph of the "House of Commons of Canada visit" section clarifying that Trudeau denied that he had a private meeting with Hunka. There appears to be some misinformation about that topic, and the current text does not address that. Snuppy12345 (talk) 01:44, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 23:44, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Image identification

The text on the source page does not match the cropped part of the file: https://komb-a-ingwar.blogspot.com/2010/10/

Гайделяґер. Хлопці з мого села Урмань, Бережанського району. Я стою посередині. Клячать, зліва: Кіналь Михайло, поляк, що зжився з українськими хлопцями; після боїв під Бродами вступив до УПА й загинув у 1946 р. біля Бережан; Кулик Іван, загинув під Бродами; Каліщук Михайло, після Бродів загинув в УПА. Стоять, зліва: Фурдиґа Василь, після Бродів повернувся додому, згодом поїхав до Москви, де жив його брат, зголосився до Червоної армії, дослужився ранґи лейтенанта, воював проти японців; Ткачук Дмитро, служив у чоті польової жандармерії у Дивізії. Інші два з присілка й я їх добре не знав.

--Polarlys (talk) 21:35, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, really. Hunka claims to be standing in the middle (i.e. on the upper row), while the soldier sitting in the middle has been cropped from the photo. This is not Hunka. Jingiby (talk) 04:59, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

You guys got the wrong guy in the pic

CTV report with Hunka highlighted as the dude in the middle of the back row (1:17)

https://youtube.com/watch?si=CJ5ujJMViiYk9eGa&v=Wvf1ZtEmw9M&feature=youtu.be

The dude pictured on this page looks nothing like the man in parliament.ᗞᗴᖇᑭᗅᒪᗴᖇᎢ (talk) 07:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

There is already discussion about this problem above. Regards. Jingiby (talk) 10:22, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 September 2023 (3)

Change "Ukrainian World War II veteran of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS" to "Ukrainian-Canadian World War II veteran who served in the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS" as he is a Canadian citizen.

Here's one source labeling him as such: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-poland-minister-extradite-1.6978266 Emkut7 (talk) 18:23, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Done. Death Editor 2 (talk) 19:31, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Photos from the tribute in the Parliament

Are there public domain images of the tribute in Parliament?  I think that these would be of high interest. The website of the House of Commons is currently unavailable. TheAmerikaner (talk) 20:42, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Any news tv broadcast or Canadian Government sourced image is under copyright. You'd have to find someone who was in the chamber and ask them to release their photo under an open license. PascalHD (talk) 03:29, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 September 2023 (2)

Members of the "Galicia Division" were interned after the end of the Second World War near Rimini, Italy. There were screened by the British, Americans, Canadians, and even the Soviets, with no evidence of wartime criminality uncovered. Later relocated to the UK they were kept working for several more years before being "civilianized," following which a number emigrated to other countries. Concerns expressed when veterans of this Division were finally granted permission to come to Canada, in 1950, were investigated by the High Commissioner of Canada to the United Kingdom. He dismissed these accusations as nothing more than "Communist propaganda."

Starting in the late 1970s the KGB successfully orchestrated a disinformation campaign, Operation Payback, deliberately stoking tensions between the Jewish and Ukrainian diasporas over the alleged presence of "thousands" of "Nazi war criminals" in Canada and the USA. These charges were thoroughly examined in 1984-1987 by the Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals headed by Mr Justice Jules Deschênes. He concluded that reports about "thousands of Nazi war criminals in Canada" were "grossly exaggerated" and noted how there was no evidence of wartime wrongdoing on the part of the veterans of the "Galicia Division." Want more information? Read the official report at https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/bcp-pco/CP32-52-1986-1-eng.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1970:4000:80:5DAF:A774:DA6E:B0E3 (talk) 13:24, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, did you have an edit suggestion? Talk pages are usually used to discuss how an article can be improved. Specific requests are usually a good starting point.

I read the report you linked. That file does not include the chapter on the Galacia Divison (why did you put the name in quotes?), and the recommendation does not say there is no evidence of wrongdoing but that the report could not find substantiated evidence of war crimes. It then concluded that prosecution of individual members of the Galician Division would not be justified. However, in the context of civil society there is a massive gulf of options between prosecute for war crimes, and give a standing ovation in parliament for how a citizen can be treated by the government. The scandal which is the reason for this biographical article's notability is not one of whether this individual is indicated for prosecution but whether he should have been honoured for his wartime service fighting under a chain of command that started with Adolf Hitler against Canada's then-ally. It should be noted that historical events are routinely rediscussed, and the findings of an investigation from nearly forty years ago do not disqualify their reevaluation.

I hope that clarifies for you some of your complaints about this subject. Please refrain from using the article's talk page as a soapbox. Handpigdad (talk) 07:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Should we re-add some of the RS-sourced content that was removed yesterday?

Some guy has removed 8,000 bytes worth of text from the article yesterday. Text that was to my eye reliably sourced. Should we perhaps re-examine some of that? Daikido (talk) 12:40, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

For the reason see Wikipedia:Coatrack articles. Jingiby (talk) 16:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request: Galician vs. Galizien and article parity

Throughout the article, the term Galizien is used in italics and without quotes to talk about Hunka's unit.

But the English name of the unit, as used in its own wikipedia article, is "14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician)" and whenever the term Galizien is used, it's always in quotes because it's the German name. Why is the German name being used, and if it must be used, shouldn't it be in quotes? SombraCollar (talk) 04:03, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

It's worse. The full name in English is used for the first reference, and then subsequent references read just SS Galizien in italics. If both forms are going to be used then some wording is needed to say that they mean the same thing. I was going to post an edit request myself over that. --142.112.221.246 (talk) 19:05, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Link to Ratlines not explained

In the third sentence of the article, "He emigrated to Canada after the conclusion of World War II," there is a link to the entry "Ratlines." There are no sources that claim Yaroslav Hunka used a ratline to come to Canada or that Canada was even a destination for a ratline. Philipophish (talk) 16:43, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Ratlines are a general term, there isn't a specific list of escape routes that are considered "The Ratlines". Any route a nazi took to escape could be called a ratline. And given that the first sentence of the wiki article being linked to says that Canada was a destination for Ratlines, I don't think that needs to be corroborated here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.198.146.55 (talk) 19:22, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

"Over one million Jews where mass murdered in that region by the Nazis and their willing collaborators. This takes us back to post World War II when the British shipped 5,000 Ukrainians in Canada. Many identified as anti-communists but the British never informed the Canadian government that among them where individuals who were implicated in crimes against humanity and war crimes,” Source: https://www.wiesenthal.com/about/news/swc-urges-canadian-prime.html --93.211.215.4 (talk) 20:39, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2023

Add to his biography that he studied at Berezhany gymnasium until 1943, emigrated to Canada in 1954, joined the Brotherhood of former Soldiers of SS Division Galicia under the auspices of Ukrainian World Congress after his emigration and is a honorary citizen of Berezhany since 2004.

Here is a link to confirm (it is an official list of honorary citizens of Berezhany with short biographies attached, it's in Ukrainian, search for Ярослав Гунька): http://berezhanymrada.gov.ua/index.php/struktura/images/15.pdf (and here is this link archived in case it suddenly dies: https://web.archive.org/web/20230928112805/http://berezhanymrada.gov.ua/index.php/struktura/images/15.pdf). 94.25.238.0 (talk) 12:49, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Please propose specific prose you'd like to see implemented, with supporting sourcing.

Edit Requests are normally used to implement specific changes (change X and replace it with Y), not call for broad improvements. Melmann 23:25, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Language in lead

The current prose in the lead is poor in form and ambiguous in content. I would suggest the following:

Yaroslav Hunka (Ukrainian: Ярослав Гунька; born c. 1925) is a Canadian who was a UkrainianWorld War II veteran of the Waffen-SS. Born in Urman, then part of Poland, Hunka volunteered for service in the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division at the age of eighteen and fought on the Eastern Front. Hunka was one of thousands of Waffen-SS members who emigrated to Canada after the conclusion of the war.

In 2023, he was invited to the House of Commons of Canada by Speaker Anthony Rota. While attending, Hunka received a standing ovation from Members of Parliament and public recognition from both Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for his wartime service and on-going support of Ukrainian independence. Subsequently, Hunka's service in the Waffen-SS become public knowledge, generating significant media coverage and criticism. Canadian government officials, including Rota, apologized for the incident, with Trudeau calling it "deeply embarrassing".

In addition to copy editing, this cleans up ambiguous weasel words, is more literal and inclusive of facts, and is easier to understand for general readership. Readers who wish to untangle the nature and political affiliations of Waffen-SS formations like the 14th can do so by following the links to relevant articles, where such material can be covered at length. Dates of service and the such are best covered in the infobox. 70.166.220.82 (talk) 17:14, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I think generally this is good, but removing any mention of Waffen-SS' Nazi affiliation seems questionable. glman (talk) 18:20, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

The ideological and state affiliation of the Waffen-SS is self-apparent. Anyone who's curious but uninformed on the nature of that wing of the SS can simply follow the link and learn all about them. The problem with equivocating with euphemistic terms like "Nazi-affiliated" is that it simultaneously blurs the nature of the Waffen-SS as an organization while trying to thread the needle on the fact that there were many people in the "Divisions of the SS" who were not actually Nazis, or even German. I think it muddies the issue and reads poorly, especially in a BLP. In my mind, all that needs to be said is he was in the Waffen-SS. 70.166.220.82 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 18:47, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

This is good wording. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 September 2023

Maybe it will be appropriate to add to the last paragraph of his biography the fact that in 2019 he made a donation to the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies at the University of Alberta to "support research related to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church with preference given to investigations of the lives and work of Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky and Metropolitan (Cardinal) Josyf Slipyj".

Here is the link that confirms it: https://www.ualberta.ca/canadian-institute-of-ukrainian-studies/donate.html#H 94.25.238.3 (talk) 17:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Link is dead, can you check if it's correct? Marcelus (talk) 17:57, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

It appears they've just deleted it (what a shame!), but it is archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20230927174724/https://www.ualberta.ca/canadian-institute-of-ukrainian-studies/donate.html#H — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.25.238.3 (talk) 18:11, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Actually, the scholarship donation was given by his sons not that man himself, to honour his memory. See, this article by The Forward: https://forward.com/fast-forward/562290/university-alberta-yaroslav-hunka-donation/. It should also be noted that U of A decided to return the money today on the 27th. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 04:09, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

It will maybe be better then to create a section about the fallout of this accident and add all of it there along with Anthony Rota's resignation, Justin Trudeau's apology (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-fallout-1.6979628), possible Polish extradition request and possible Russian extradition request mentioned by the ambassador of Russia to Canada (https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassyC/status/1707094279816933397) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.25.238.0 (talk) 08:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

The CBC is reporting a story about the cancellation of the Endowment. Should be a good enough source. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-endowment-closed-1.6980882 Handpigdad (talk) 18:39, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, disregard. I missed that the information about the endowment was already sourced from The Forward's story. Handpigdad (talk) 18:42, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Closing request as discussion has stalled (20 days with no new comments), and is not likely to resume now that the section has been archived. Tollens (talk) 07:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Katchanovski and the Yaroslav Hunka affair

Canadian media rely widely on Ivan Katchanovski in the Yaroslav Hunka affair.[1][2][3][4][5][6] Also the Polish,[7][8][9] French,[10][11] the German,[12][13] and the Italian.[14] Perhaps we could quote the scholar in the article. Mhorg (talk) 09:51, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Mhorg! Today Katchanovski in the Guardian: ‘Canada has a dark history with Nazis’: political scandal prompts reckoning → "After the war, thousands of Ukrainians moved to Canada... But possible links and sympathies to the Nazis were largely overlooked as the cold war set in... --87.170.197.110 (talk) 13:17, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 September 2023

It should be added to his biography that he was a British prisoner of war. He writes about it in his memoirs (https://komb-a-ingwar.blogspot.com/2011/03/blog-post_21.html): "В останній день війни - дивізія „Галичина", зірвавши контакт з ЧА в Штирії (Австрія), і здалася Британській Армії. У таборі військовополонених в Італії стрічав я багато хлопців з різних сіл Бережанщини." Translation: "On the last day of the war SS Galizien division broke contact with the Red Army in Styria (Austria) and surrendered to the British Army. In the prisoner of war camp in Italy I met many guys from different villages of the Berezhan region." 94.25.238.193 (talk) 14:51, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Closing request – nearly 20 days with no comment, and archived now. Tollens (talk) 07:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Here is translation of Hunka’s blogpost

https://genderdesk.wordpress.com/2023/09/26/yaroslav-hunkas-blog-post/ 96.50.81.253 (talk) 07:09, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Was this done in Google Translate or by an actual Ukrainian translator? HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 20:56, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Maybe a non-native, but the translation is pretty accurate. --Amakuha (talk) 01:21, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Yaroslav Hunka

Any information regarding history should not be deleted. The articles regarding Yaroslav Hunka need not be deleted. It is from the past that we learn from. This is very important information and one hopes it will serve to educate, enlighten and help nurture necessary changes to our future growth. I'm very sickened by the current Liberal government deleting our history. Its a shame they cannot be proud of Canada and the growth this country has made over centuries. 142.112.225.186 (talk) 17:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Imagine being so embarrassed over applauding a nazi you try to erase it from the record and censor it online

Lmao 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Factual history should not be allowed to be deleted. 2604:3D08:5384:6600:6784:579A:D05F:9EF6 (talk) 02:14, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Imagine having so little understanding or regard for Wikipedia policy and what this page is for. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:28, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Based take 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Not a public figure

This article should be deleted. Previous users have mentioned good reasons.

This man is not a historical figure. Being in the news once for a single issue does not make someone a public figure.

It just seems a bit sensational to me at this point and it can be argued that the article is a violation of his privacy. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 05:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Nazis deserve no privacy. The Waffen-SS remains a criminal organization to this day. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:29, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Please remember WP:NPOV 194.80.168.100 (talk) 12:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

We all deserve privacy.

I'll stand up for your rights the same as anyone elses friend. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 14:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Nazis don’t have rights, they kill and murder everywhere they have the chance 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

That's not how the world works friend. We all get rights, you can't just pick and choose.

It's a hard thing to do, but you should try to be mature if you're going to be writing articles on people. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

This page is not for your rants. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I won’t stand for a nazi’s soldier’s right to have his crimes forgotten by history. This is a website for recording history, not for creating propaganda you feel will help you win a war. I’d say the same to a Russian trying to erase history to help their cause. 74.109.240.116 (talk) 14:09, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

The man has not been charged with war crimes.

If he was a convicted war criminal. There would be no debate here on this issue whatsoever.

The facts as it stand are the he is not a war criminal; you can't just call someone that without a trial. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy doesn't care about your feelings. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:28, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

@198.166.247.189 the man wrote a book about the history of the 14th Waffen SS Galicia and ran a blog about the subject for years, an he was subject of a talk and ovation by the Canadian speaker of the house.

Moreover, he's by definition a war criminal, and will be prosecuted by several nations.

He's very much a public figure. 178.197.194.64 (talk) 11:22, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

We already went through this entire issue in the 80's with the man's entire unit.

It is going to come out that he didn't participate in any war crimes and forgotten about promptly.

It's a sensationalist story. You are all putting a spin on something that was already investigated over 30 years ago. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 14:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Forgive us for not taking “it will all come out shortly that I am right” as hard evidence. 74.109.240.116 (talk) 13:59, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Why is it so hard to find this information. In 1985 public inquiry headed by Justice Jules Deschênes was made on the matter. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:29, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Why can't you use Google?

You are literally doxxing someone without even doing basic research. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you take as evidence. Wikipedia isn't about your feelings or beliefs, it's about reliable sources. Unless you're prepared to contribute to Wikipedia following its guidelines, you should stay off this page. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I can't find that definition in the dictionary. Please stick to reliable sources and stop splatting your feelings all over this page. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:31, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

This person is a war criminal. The attempts to keep his biography secret led to the resignation of the Speaker of the House of Commons of Canada. This should not happen again. Akusso (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Do you think the Mossad would have let him live to 98 in Canada if he committed war crimes?

He would have been bagged and taken back to isreal for execution years ago if he was an actual war criminal. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 14:22, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Are you really trying to insinuate that Mossad killed all war criminals and there are no war criminals alive?

You are too eager to whitewash this person. Akusso (talk) 14:56, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

It’s insane the stuff wehrboos say

its no longer the clean Wehrmacht myth, its the clean SS myth 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm insinuating that this has already been investigated and it's been found to be a non-issue.

But please continue to thow insults around. Real classy. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:31, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

That's odd.

Could you please point me to the citation that states Hunka is a convicted war criminal? You cant.

You have a lot of subjective opinion. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:50, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Your opinions and beliefs are not relevant to Wikipedia. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:36, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

He became a historical figure when he came to Parliament and Canadians suddenyl became aware we were hosting actual SD nazis.

Deleting this article is just trying to hide the truth. Classy. 209.226.210.20 (talk) 13:07, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry but being in the news a couple of times doesn't constitutes being a public figure.

Writing a book does not make you a public figure.

You guys are really bending the litmus test to the breaking point with this one. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 14:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

There are pages on Wikipedia where the notoriety is something like "eaten by a bear" or "wrote a book".

I even personally know someone who has a page and they're barely hitting local celebrity level.

The reason you don't like this page is because it makes Canada and Ukraine look bad for celebrating an SS member. 92.239.36.113 (talk) 08:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

That's not the reason I think this is a bad article. You cant stop Canada from looking bad that's just how it is.

The page is not complete. It does not have close to the full story. Everyone responding to my comments about privacy have thrown personal insults at me; which tells me the authors are biased. I have a few more reasons if you want them but won't go on.

You're point however is a good one and I think that it identifies a problem. I would argue that those pages of "barely celebrity" and "eaten by bear" should not exist either.

You're saying if I get consumed by a bear, I am now a public figure? C'mon get out of here with that one. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:57, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

They have no clue what Wikipedia is about. They're virtue signaling by bashing Nazis .. they seem desperate to feel good about themselves, and that's an easy way. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Y’all really do be trying to delete info you don’t like

L fascist imo 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Non of the reasons I stated come from fascist ideal.

Please don't throw personal insults around. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:32, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

fuck nazis Toma0910 (talk) 15:06, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Agreed.

But beside the point. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 15:35, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Grow up and learn what it means to be a Wikipedia editor. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Anonymous Comment: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.162.8.190 (talk) 12:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC) If wikipedia deletes this they show to the whole world what a joke they are, impartial and subject to white washing the embarassments of western governments. Pathetic

But Wikipedia IS completely compromised. How many of these comments are from state disinformation services? Its a joke and has been for a long time. 209.226.210.20 (talk) 13:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

What is the proof he is a "war criminal" other than guilt by association and the very political branding of the Waffen-SS as a criminal organization at the end of the war?2604:3D09:C77:4E00:78E7:629F:27C3:E683 (talk) 20:49, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

So describing the waffen SS as a criminal white supremacist organization is a “political branding” to you? Interesting argument. 74.109.240.116 (talk) 14:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I am American. I support Ukraine in the war. I think you are glorifying Nazism. Want to call me a Russian spy too? 74.109.240.116 (talk) 14:00, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I want to call you completely clueless about Wikipedia policy and what this page is for. None of your comments are in compliance. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

He is a part of world history now. The speaker resigned because of him, IIRC. So everyone should see for their own why inviting Hunka was a very bad idea. Moreover Hunka accepted that invitation, it was his own decision to became public person in this case. --Nataraj (talk) 22:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

So call it the Hunka Incident (2023)

You don't need to have the town the guy loves in. 198.166.247.189 (talk) 16:00, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

These comments have no relevance to Wikipedia or the purpose of this page. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:43, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Potentially Biased reason For Deletion

Absolutely heartbreaking that this is being considered for deletion. There is quite literally no other reason than to hide the mistake of key powerful members of the canadian government. I've been passionate about Wikipedia for so long and it's sad to watch it become another government propaganda machine--92.40.197.162 (talk) 13:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree completely. Attempting to censor this man's past and the controversy around him is completely sickening. 174.112.115.199 (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Agree, this is ridiculous 2A02:3031:0:4CE2:3AC1:AE3E:5D2:CCA7 (talk) 15:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

If you actually check the deletion nomination, there's massive consensus against it being deleted. Anyone can nominate any article on Wikipedia for deletion, it's not an activity on behalf of Wikipedia's board of governance or anything. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 15:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

You're passionate about Wikipedia as an IP editor with three edits? glman (talk) 17:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

i see your point, but the new editor wrote that they are passionate about wikipedia, not passionate about editing wikipedia. i assume the vast majority of people who spend a lot of time reading and thinking about wikipedia have never made a single edit. please don't bite the newcomer. Handpigdad (talk) 21:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Oh please. Wikipedia talk pages are for improving the associated article, not for ridiculous ignorant dishonest rants about Wikipedia becoming a government propaganda machine. Anyone actually passionate about Wikipedia "for so long" would have some clue as to how it works. And your statements are self-contradictory ... if they "spend a lot of time reading and thinking about Wikipedia" then they aren't "newcomers". As for "new editor" ... what new editor? They aren't editing, they're ranting, and if they've been "passionate about Wikipedia for so long" then they aren't new. And most people passionate about Wikipedia definitely have "made a single edit". 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 20:17, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Seconded, deletion of this is a political based censorship move 47.40.177.156 (talk) 22:00, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

What deletion? If it were deleted then you wouldn't be here on its talk page violating Wikipedia policy. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 20:00, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

If you're "heartbroken" in regard to a subject on Wikipedia then you're focusing on the wrong pages. Editors should stick to subjects that they are disinterested in. But most of the people on this page seem to have no interest in being responsible Wikipedia editors. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:47, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

it's sad to watch it become another government propaganda machine

It's sad to see people be so appallingly intellectually dishonest. These sorts of sweeping accusations against Wikipedia are grossly ignorant, have no merit, and have no place on its talk pages. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 19:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Looking to whitewash this by deleting the page? Stay classy Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.226.210.20 (talk) 13:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Under no circumstances should this page be deleted, as this individual is no longer a private figure and instead is now tied to political Canadian history by virtue of the fallout from his attendance in Parliament. Deleting this page would be an attempt to whitewash history and hide that parliament (inadvertently) honored a Nazi, similar to how Karina Gould attempted to have it stricken from the parliamentary record. The fact it's even being considered for deletion is deeply disturbing. 142.126.252.89 (talk) 17:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

There was hardly anything inadvertent about it. KetchupSalt (talk) 18:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

It was completely inadvertent, as no one there knew about his background. If you folks are going to so abuse this talk page with your rants, it would be nice if you were at least slightly factual and honest about it. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 20:19, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Since some people apparently are unable to read what Ser said, be aware that literally any Wikipedia editor can nominate any article for deletion at any time save for small exceptions, it means nothing unless it actually goes through. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 17:56, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

DO NOT delete this article. Simon Wiesenthal had a list of Ukrainian Nazis that were in Canada, they were never caught or brought to justice. Trudeau is acting like a dictator in 1984. LEAVE THIS INFO HERE. DO NOT let it be deleted. To delete it is like Holocaust Denial! 73.156.186.198 (talk) 02:51, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Removng this article, the truth about Hunka being in Waffen SS and what the division he was in did, removing it would be like Holocause Denial. DO NOT REMOVE THIS. Tanijantsang (talk) 05:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

This article should be removed, it threatens the liberal establishment. 124.169.142.90 (talk) 08:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Deleted sourced content without adequate explanation

User:Daikido, with your recent 2 edits, you have deleted facts directly related to the bio of this person. This was not a cleansing. Please restore them, thanks. Jingiby (talk) 11:48, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

The reason for these removals is unclear. Mhorg (talk) 12:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Thirding this, I am asking Daikido to please self-revert. CJ-Moki (talk) 14:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

You have been trying to wipe out all the mentions of the holocaust and nazi ties for a while now. 91.242.152.178 (talk) 15:23, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Oh I'm sorry folks, I was basing my edits on Jongibys own edits trying just like you guys to remove kremlinist agenda driven editing. If thats top much to your eyes feel free to revert me, I would have reverted myself but I'm on mobile rn without access to a pc so it's hard Daikido (talk) 16:04, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

There is clear misinformation around this. In his bio it states that 1941-1943 were the happiest years of his live as if to imply it was because of joining the division. That's not true. According to his own bio it was because the Soviet Union had control over his village and had sent his aunt, uncle, and cousins away to Siberia. When the Germans arrived the Soviets retreated so for the first time at 16 he was free. He didn't enlist until 1943. Fyrefawx (talk) 19:29, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Agree. I have removed this sentence again. It's not clear what this statement would have to do with the "biography" even if it weren't misrepresenting his statements. glman (talk) 20:37, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

It is not misrepresenting his statements. He said those were the happiest years of his life as the Germans had arrived, and he celebrated their arrival.

It is important as it shows the extent to which he had Nazi sympathies. 101.78.67.231 (talk) 18:28, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

This does not show he had any sympathies, only that he fought against a side that had taken family members away. We do not know whether he agreed with a political ideology or not, if you have a credible source which states one way or the other please cite it. Casforty (talk) 01:38, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Fighting for the Waffen-SS does not show you have Nazi sympathies? Wtf? 101.78.67.231 (talk) 03:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

In Hunka's case, it shows he had anti-Soviet sympathies, for understandable reasons. As far as Hunka knew, the Germans were a civilized western nation.

Forum-like discussion of the morality of historical choices

Remember, there was no internet (free or censored). There was no Wikipedia. There was only the narrow mustache against the wide mustache. And Hunka knew the wide mustache was evil. Today we know both mustaches were among the most evil humans ever to have existed! 173.48.121.140 (talk) 20:36, 27 September 2023 (UTC) Good to see the West is so tolerant, it’s already beginning to rehabilitate the Waffen-SS! 101.78.67.231 (talk) 13:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Educate yourself on the history 194.80.168.100 (talk) 12:38, 28 September 2023 (UTC) He fought for the Waffen-SS, how can you say he didnt agree with their ideology? 194.207.215.200 (talk) 15:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC) Educate yourself on the history 194.80.168.100 (talk) 12:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC) Please don't accuse editors of being "kremlinist propagandists" without evidence. Engage on the level of source quality, don't just make unsubstantiated allegations of bad faith as a justification for edits — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.198.146.55 (talk) 19:27, 27 September 2023 (UTC) To be fair, everyone NOT supporting the maidan junta (Turchinov & co) after February 2014 was also labelled as pro-kremlin and .. shot by the dobrobats/azov in East Ukraine. Absolutely same rhetoric.89.1.153.249 (talk) 10:40, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

This isn't how Wikipedia works. Editors' opinions about who had sympathies for what are completely irrelevant, as are editors' opinions about content generally. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 18:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Kremlist Agenda? Who's to say you don't have a NATO western agenda? Stick to the facts and stop trying to inject your personal animosities aside, remember Wikipedia is used by the World not just 'the West'. Alexi Capac (talk) 12:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I didn't know Putin had a time machine with which to go back to the 1940's and trick poor Hunka into joining the Waffen-SS. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:27, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

please don't troll Wikipedia talk pages. Comments like these do nothing to improve the article, which is the only thing these talk pages are for. 2600:8802:571B:E00:C144:740A:EC8F:778A (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Controversial statements cited to Hunka

Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: "rm controversial claims cited to the subject himself; needs secondary sources". -- K.e.coffman (talk) 04:21, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

"He says his reason for enlisting was ..." – What's controversial about it? It's verifiable and this primary source is already used for much of the article. --Amakuha (talk) 18:37, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

We are using secondary sources. Reasons given by the figure in question in his autobiographical sketch aren't neccessary notable or verifable. We need a secondary source to examin them and potentially give different ones. Marcelus (talk) 20:03, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

"We are using secondary sources." – That's not precise. Neither for this article, nor for Wikipedia in general. Wikipedia guidelines allow some use of primary sources, which is commonplace in biography articles. See WP:PRIMARY, WP:BLPPRIMARY.

In any case, I added a secondary source, which discusses the motivation to join SS Galizien.[15] --Amakuha (talk) 20:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

"He says his reason for enlisting was following the call of the Ukrainian National Committee to fight for Ukrainian independence."

1) UNC was created in 1945; in Hunka's memoirs he mentions its predecessor - UCC, which worked as auxiliary administration and officially sanctioned representative body of Ukrainians on the new territories since 1940.
2) Hunka doesn't say anything about "call for independence". In fact, in its recruitment campaign UCC did not (and could not, for obvious reasons) promote Ukrainian independence, they called for the fight against Bolshevism and for the "New Europe". 96.22.194.231 (talk) 07:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Hunka mentions not independence directly. But he mentions "Unified Ukraine" as the primary reason to enlist for his generation. (In Ukrainian: І пішло воно [моє покоління] задля ідеї Соборної України.)

He also mentions anti-Sovietism as another major reason to take up the arms. --Amakuha (talk) 01:37, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Note that the term "Соборність" is not a substitute for independence or autonomy, it's more like unity of the nation (in all senses, but primarily spiritual). In any case, UCC did not use this term either. If Hunka thought that he enlisted to the Waffen-SS to fight for Ukrainian independence, then he was deeply confused. Not to say that national unity could hardly be achieved this way, since there were more Ukrainians fighting in the ranks of the Red Army. 96.22.194.231 (talk) 23:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect. "Unity" referred to a concrete idea of unity between Western Ukraine (which was ruled by Poland before the war) and so called Dnieper Ukraine (ruled by Russia/Soviets). See Unification Act (1919).

I don't think Hunka mentions independence in his letter. Only unity and anti-Sovietism / anti-Stalinism. --Amakuha (talk) 01:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2023

Change "Ukrainian secession from the Soviets" to "Ukrainian secession from the USSR" or maybe "Ukrainian secession from the Soviet Union". This because Soviets redirects to Soviet people, which makes the sentence nonsensical. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:39, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 15:46, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Biography Addition

In 2007 the Ukrainian Canadian Congress awarded Hunka and other former members of the 14th Waffen-SS 1st Galicia the "Medal of Merit"

Sources:

CTV News comment on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REQXv3Pc_c0&t=370s

and this a copy of the booklet for the event stored on the Ukrainian Diaspora Library. His name is listed on P.13 (1st Division) left/bottom

https://diasporiana.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/books/13151/file.pdf Baelzvuv (talk) 23:38, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 15:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

A better source is needed. Diasporiana/UCC source is primary and it doesn't clearly state who received the award. It just gives a list of veterans (with Hunka in it) and it also describes the award. --Amakuha (talk) 17:22, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Everyone on that list was given the Medal of Merit

I'm not sure what would be unclear about this 2604:3D08:9B77:AB00:6463:74EC:1B2D:28B0 (talk) 07:00, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 October 2023. Add attempt by Karina Gould to strike the recognition from the official record.

Before "On September 26, Rota announced his resignation over the controversy." I propose adding the following:

On September 25, government house leader Karina Gould filed a motion to strike the recognition from the official record. The motion ignited heated debate and failed to gain the necessary unanimous support.

or maybe a shorter form:

Government house leader Karina Gould filed a motion to strike the recognition from the official record, which failed to gain the necessary unanimous support. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:52, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

References

•  Done—Alalch E. 21:25, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

The single-sentence paragraph there looks a bit weird.. KetchupSalt (talk) 08:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

More detail should be added. What he said in his apology. —Alalch E. 09:25, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request: first use of "SS Galizien" still needs clarification.

As the lead parargraph stands, someone reading it has to jump down to footnote [a] between the first and second sentences in order for the second sentence to make sense. The abbreviation needs to be explained inline in the usual way, something like one of these:

• "...of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) (SS Galizien), a military formation..."
• "...of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician)—abbreviated SS Galizien—a military formation..."
• "...of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician or SS Galizien), a military formation..."
• "...of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, 1st Galician, or SS Galizien, a military formation..."

The normal MOS:ACRO1STUSE style for acronyms would make sense for this abbreviation, producing the first of the four options, but the parentheses around "1st Galician" make it read awkwardly, which is why I suggest the other possibilities: I have a mild preference for the second of the four. Anyway, something like this is needed: shoving the explanation into a footnote is not adequate. It should be possible to read the lead paragraph in normal order. --142.112.221.246 (talk) 01:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

•  Done. Thanks.—Alalch E. 01:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
  • About the options: The first option is not great because of side-by-side parentheses (to be avoided per MOS:BRACKET), a modified second option was used, the third and fourth are not acceptable because the "(1st Galician)" part of the name is part of the proper name and can't be adulterated by any means.—Alalch E. 01:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Trudeau hasn't apologized.

Not only has he not apologized, but he has ignored the media at every turn since this happened and the subject is brought up. In the Wiki page it states that Trudeau apologized to the Jewish community. If that is true, a link to that video would be useful. 2601:1C1:8582:5E90:3122:9A25:69EB:C3F2 (talk) 07:56, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

I think the references state that he did apologise for the event. E.g. Trudeau apologizes for recognition of Nazi unit war veteran in Canadian Parliament from the AP News. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:20, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

I would know. I added it. Professor Penguino (talk) 06:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)