Talk:Zartan

Zartan's 'hair' or 'hood'

As the toy I thought that thing on Zartan's head was a hood. But after the cartoon 'gijoe a real american hero' it seemed obvious to me that 'hood' was actually his hair. But the pic of the Sigma6 cartoon it looks again like a hood. In my mind from the first cartoon it is ingrained as his hair. Please don't destroy my childhood. har. just kidding. Which is it?

It's a hood. Even on the cartoon (though maybe it's more like a towel there). I remember being confused as to what it was supposed to be on the cartoon as a kid but who's hair is one single flat piece like that? Zartan's a freak but not that big of a freak. 24.178.211.155

Fair use rationale for Image:Dreadnoks.jpg

Image:Dreadnoks.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Familial ties

Zartan's family varies across all mediums. His siblings and daughter are not present in all continuities and should not be referenced in the character's general biography. 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:344D:BB96:9079:FC40 (talk) 21:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Before, you removed information about Zarana & Zandar being twins, and left the information about Zartan having a daughter. These are not good faith, unbiased edits. These are edits from a non-neutral point of view with a specific agenda in mind. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 06:28, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins They're really not. You're just completely obsessed with trying to merge continuities to suit your agenda.

This isn't an edit war. This is you refusing to accept simple facts. 2600:1005:B102:CB7B:1617:B49F:1085:E83D (talk) 14:52, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

They really are:

"All of GI Joe has always been a rolling ret-con.

I just assumed from the start that they were twins.

When it comes down to it, the only theories that count are mine."

—Larry Hama Dreadnok Twins (talk) 02:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I always thought of them as twins growing up in the 80s... they dress the same and were released as figures at the same time. It makes sense. Larry Hama created their backgrounds and information for both the toyline and the Marvel comic (which he wrote) back in the 80s. At the time, he didn't specifically mention that they were twins, but then he rarely used Zandar in the comic, anyway. However, as Dreadnok Twins has posted, Hama, himself, has recently stated that he considers them to be twins, which means they are now considered that across multiple versions of the IP (IDW, Hamaverse, and toyline) and, since it's not explicitly stated that they are NOT twins, in either the cartoons or the Devil's Due Publications, I believe they should be considered as twins universally.

Zanya, I agree, should only be included in the Devil's Due section, as that is the only version that exists, outside a single figure Hasbro created for a Dreadnok multi-pack in the 2010s. DarkLordMordred (talk) 09:03, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

At the end of the day, an author's intention doesn't matter. It's the work put out there. None of the twin references occurred in pre-IDW media (aside from the two kids books which were very clearly standalones themselves), and Hama's comment doesn't retroactively change any of that. Were the twins in DDP? Are to assume Movie Zandar has an off-screen twin and that he's got a piece of her shirt in his pocket and shares a secret language? Show me ONE reference to them being twins in the original media, and I'll fold. 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:70EC:7696:B445:9EAF (talk) 22:24, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I think what Hama says is relevant, because he was in charge of the bios back when the characters were created. His word means more than any other on the matter, so if he says they are twins, then that should be enough, regardless of whether it's mentioned in the 80s material. I mean, Lucas went and retroactively changed stuff from the OT Star Wars trilogy in the 90s and whether you agree with the changes or not, they are official. This isn't really different. I think, for the sake of moving past this edit war, you should compromise on the twin aspect in exchange for the specific DDP or IDW stuff (Zack and Zoe, twin speak, Zanya) being removed from the main profile and placed in their respective comic sections. That's fair, isn't it? We can certainly add that Zandar and Zarana are not portrayed as being twins in the cartoon section and that Zarana doesn't exist at all in the films. DarkLordMordred (talk) 08:12, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

There is distinct bias toward the Marvel Comics source material. In fan circles, this is fine; in Wikipedia, there must remain neutrality. There is no need to mention Zarana & Zandar aren’t twins where it was never specified. It was simply never specified one way or the other, no need to point it out. That they are twins, and their collective traits, stays in the main profile section. Take a look at other GI Joe characters wiki pages and you’ll see a robust profile for most of them. All the comics and cartoon sections are doing is describing events that happened to the characters, not splitting hairs over traits and essentially writing 2> character profiles per article. You showed up here demanding removal and then redistribution of material that has been on this page for decades without issue. No. It stays. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 08:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

See my response below. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 08:59, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah we're going to clean this up. You can attempt to police this page all you want, but the simple fact is that Zartan's orgins and the existence of his siblings and daughter vary. Zanya appears in the Devil's Due continuity only, and Zartan's origins with "Zack" and "Zoe" are IDW stories.

I've organized the article to include all relevant information without conflating continuities. I fail to see the issue with that. 207.157.86.3 (talk) 15:09, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't see an issue with the current state of the article, as you have edited it. It still contains all the same information it did before, just now in their proper continuities. DarkLordMordred (talk) 13:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

You still show bias towards one continuity over others, one reference material over others. This is not acceptable. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 07:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins It's not your place to deem what is acceptable and what isn't.

Your statement above is oozing with hypocrisy. There is no bias towards continuity when describing the character in a general sense. You have a clear and strong bias for a story element that is not relevant to Zartan's description and did not exist at the time.

I have tried to put this info in its appropriate section, and you rail against it. A quick Google search of your username provides a lot of clarity on this. You are obsessed with a plot point and determined to insert it anywhere you can to "spread awareness." 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins It's not your place to deem what is acceptable and what isn't.

Your statement above is oozing with hypocrisy. There is no bias towards continuity when describing the character in a general sense. You have a clear and strong bias for a story element that is not relevant to Zartan's description and did not exist at the time.

I have tried to put this info in its appropriate section, and you rail against it. A quick Google search of your username provides a lot of clarity on this. You are obsessed with a plot point and determined to insert it anywhere you can to "spread awareness." 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

According to what? The particular continuity you personally consider more defining as far as general info than any others? The Marvel Comics 1980s continuity? You are maintaining a biased point of view and an agenda to mitigate what goes into “general information” about this character. He has siblings. His siblings have been described as twins in multiple continuities. It stays in the profile section as it has multiple valid references. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 21:08, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins See. You're not reasonable, and you act as if you are in charge of this page. You're only going to get yet another Wiki page locked for editing because of a blatant and clear biased towards something that, frankly, isn't event relevant on Zartan's profile.

And no. They aren't twins in multiple continuities. You haven't once substantiated that. Not even the Hama quote verifies it! 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 22:06, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I’ve provided five verifiable references to the Zarana and Zandar characters being twins. This may not meet your criteria for including the information, but it meets Wikipedia’s. The information and references stay. You have resorted to name-calling, vandalism of articles and deletion of references, accusations and cyberstalking. This has to end. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 23:41, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins Yes. Your references belong in their respective sections on the bio. Why do you think those sections exist in the first place?

I have not called you any names. I have not vandalized any articles. If by "cyber stalking" you mean I discovered your online presence, then okay. You run a Facebook group devoted to your Dreadnok twins campaign. That sorta seems like something you want to be seen. Even if it does show very clearly how insanely biased you are when it comes to the subject of Zandar and Zarana and your desire to see their portrayal as twins in the IDW stories extend to all of the media. After all, you were supposedly bothered that Zanya went to the Devil's Due section, but you didn't feel the need to change that with your last edit.

And this, by the way, is not even the Zandar or the Zarana article. This twinship isn't even relevant on this page. 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 00:58, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I did add the mention of Zanya back into the profile section, but for some reason, it didn’t appear. From the outset, you have wanted to mitigate the inclusion of certain details if you couldn’t see them removed outright. Zartan has a set of twins for younger siblings. This is relevant. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 01:15, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins Again, what's the point of sections reserved for Sunbow, Marvel, Devil's Due, etc?

Zartan has a set of siblings. They're twins in one comic series. They're not even associated with each other in other mediums, including the original comic, toon, and figures.

But you think that one plot detail in one version of the media should be presented as if it's a core element of the mythos. It isn't. 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 01:48, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

It is, and it stays. Your original edits had to do with ‘pathetic fan-fiction’ and that Zandar and Zarana weren’t conceived to be twins. So I provided input from Larry Hama that they were in fact considered twins from the beginning. This wasn’t enough for you. Then it was that a writer’s intention didn’t matter. Then it was about where the information about their being twins was mentioned, that the “Marvel Comics” continuity was more important than the others. Now it’s about putting things in particular sections—and out of the main profile section despite five different viable references. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 02:00, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dreadnok Twins Your input from Hama is unsourced, your references are viable in their respective sections, and you're arguing with the wrong person when it comes to the pathetic fan fiction deal. I'm not the only recent editor here. 2600:6C58:4E7F:E4DC:FCE5:9C97:54E8:3ECC (talk) 02:32, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I propose a compromise. The information and references to Zartan’s younger set of twin siblings be mentioned in specific sections, as you would see it, and also be mentioned in the Zartan article’s main profile section, as I would see it. Dreadnok Twins (talk) 04:13, 11 September 2022 (UTC)