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Template:Did you know nominations/1986 Balloonfest

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Hasteur (talk) 18:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

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Balloonfest '86

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Created by Ktr101 (talk), Varnent (talk). Nominated by Ktr101 (talk) at 14:09, 15 March 2014 (UTC).

  • Length and date checks out. But the hook is a bit problematic. The article itself doesn't use the term 'indirectly caused'. And as per the deaths, none of the refs establish that the balloons led to death, just that the balloons impeded a rescue operation that might have been able to save the two men. Also, not sure if 'viralforest' is WP:RS. --Soman (talk) 01:37, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Varnent, could you address the last one? In terms of the hook, feel free to replace it, as I thought that would be the best way to address them. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 05:22, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I do not feel strongly about that source, and will find some alternatives. Also, I think it is worth including the two deaths in some way. --Varnent (talk)(COI) 06:47, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
  • It's been over three weeks since the above, and I don't see any alternative sourcing or action to deal with the issues raised. I've adjusted this template to reflect that the article has been moved to Balloonfest '86, and struck the original hook due to the objections noted above; a new ALT hook needs to be created in addition to work on the other issues for this to proceed. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Greg and I were in Berlin this weekend, and I brought this up to him in person on Saturday. @Varnent:, care to finish off this giant task? Kevin Rutherford (talk) 01:47, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
ALT1 ok. --Soman (talk) 07:24, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
  • ALT1 appears to be fundamentally inaccurate and a bit sensationalist. The boaters went out on Friday, and were reported missing by their families on Saturday after they failed to return. The Coast Guard began their search just after the start of the Balloonfest, at a point when it is highly likely that the boaters had long since drowned, especially given the theory of what happened to them as reported in the story. To refer to them as "drowning"—that is, still alive but about to die—at the point that the Coast Guard helicopter got to the area is not adequately backed up by the sources. I've struck it, and unless the hook points out that the boaters went missing the day before, or is more generic (interfered with a Coast Guard search), I don't think this fact is usable. (I should also mention that the use of the second source in the second Consequences paragraph, to support the hook fact that the Coast Guard couldn't distinguish between balloons and boaters upon arriving at the scene, is highly misleading: that source doesn't talk about the Coast Guard at all.) There is plenty in the article that has potential for an interesting hook, so I'm looking forward to seeing an ALT2. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:41, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
The idea that air crews rescue people during the 10 minutes or so that it requires to drown is ridiculous and I think perverse that that meaning is being assigned as unsourced. The core of the hook is that they could not find anything because the sea was full of balloons. I suggest that changing "drowned boaters" to "boaters who drowned" is the kind of change that is required. I object to the idea that hooks can be withdrawn without being replaced. Minor changes are sufficient here and I worry that we will soon have a scoring system for the meta reviewers to work out who has disrupted the process more. Can you please repair rather than demolish. The process of creating Wikipedia has errors. The only way to stop the errors is to stop the process. The way to assist the process is to repair and improve. Victuallers (talk) 19:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Okay, let's try this again: ALT2: ... that the release of 1.5 million balloons as part of Balloonfest '86 made it impossible for United States Coast Guard aircrews to find two boaters who were reported missing? @Victuallers: Feel free to review this if you want, as I agree in the part that it is rather disruptive to just strike hooks without offering any sort of compromise. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 15:11, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Article is new enough and long enough. I added a few more refs and removed the "single source" tag. No close paraphrasing seen. QPQ done. However, the ALT2 hook is not exactly correct per the sources. It appears that the balloons made it impossible for the Coast Guard to reach the boat of the two fishermen, not the fishermen themselves. Alternately, the "asteroid field" quote is pretty juicy. Yoninah (talk) 21:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Do you mean you want to tweak the ALT2 hook, or write a new one? Here's a suggestion for the "asteroid field" quote:
  • ALT3: ... that the release of 1.5 million balloons in Balloonfest '86 made a US Coast Guard search and rescue helicopter crew feel like they were flying through an "asteroid field"? Yoninah (talk) 13:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I was actually going to suggest the last one, and it looks like you did a great job with this, as I wanted to see what could be done with the hook and the asteroid field tidbit. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 15:00, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Unfortunately, it's going to have to wait for another reviewer to sign off on it :). Yoninah (talk) 17:00, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
  • The source that is linked at the end of that sentence does not support that wording. It mentions that the "asteroid field" of balloons interfered with the Coast Guard search, but not that the crew of the helicopter expressed it in those terms. Belle (talk) 11:53, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
The first one works for me. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

In regards to ALT4, date, length, cites all check. Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:38, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

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