Template:Did you know nominations/Adriaan de Bruin

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:50, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Adriaan de Bruin

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Adriaan de Bruin (left), portrayed in Oosthuizen, 1727

... that Adriaan de Bruin (d. 1766) (pictured with Adriaan van Bredehoff) was kidnapped into slavery from Africa, and via the Dutch Caribbean or Dutch Surinam got to Hoorn, in the Dutch Republic, where he married a local woman and ran a tobacco shop? [1]

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sangita Magar.

Created by Drmies (talk). Self-nominated at 02:23, 2 May 2019 (UTC).

Interesting life on good sources, offline and Dutch sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I'd be more interested in the history of his name than in two African places we are not certain about. You need a pictured-clause in the hook. How do you feel about an infobox? At present the right corner would make me think that we deal with a painting focuse on the white man. - I find the phrase "the–white–maid" rather awkward. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:14, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, thanks. I added the picture thing. I am trying hard, in the phrasing of all that, not to let the white dude ("master") play first violin. Yes, some kind of caption would be good and I don't mind an infobox--but there's very little to put in. On that note: the history of the name, what I have is all there is, or at least all I can find. There are no two African places--there is one, and I don't think we know which that is. I wish we knew more, but when these slavers and kidnappers came along they didn't care about records. For people like Redoshi they'd list "African" in the census, cause for those racist exploiters they were all the same... Drmies (talk) 01:25, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Understand. I guess to really not have Bredehoff play first violin, we need a crop that doesn't show him, and perhaps David can make one? I looked at the person in the centre, of course, thinking until well into reading that he was the one we talk about. - We have an article with crop AND pic, Ria Thiele. I never need more in a bio infobox than dates and places of birth and death (even when uncertain, that also tells us something), and names, and why we have an article about the person Beethoven, for example. I thtink it's quite amazing that (Adriaan) Tabo was pictured at all. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:56, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Back to the hook, I'd rather mention his other name, and don't know if we need "ended up" unless you can tell me that doesn't sound like an unhappy ending. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:59, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm open to anything to do with the picture, of course--thanks! I tweaked the hook. But I am not going back to "Tabo", since I have no idea what the value of that name is; Adriaan de Bruin he seems to have chosen voluntarily. Drmies (talk) 20:35, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I prefer the new wording (without "ended up"), but it comes in too long. My brutal pruning would be

ALT1: ~~... that Adriaan de Bruin (pictured) was kidnapped into slavery from Africa and got to Hoorn in the Dutch Republic, where he married a local woman and ran a tobacco shop?~~

Please polish, and the pictured depending on what picture we'll end up with ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Gerda: The image doesn't lend itself to such a crop (due to issues of composition and resolution).

Additionally, I'm not sure that it's advisable to use the portrait outside of its historical context, given the circumstances under which it was painted (a pseudo-master/slave relationship, which potentially impacted both the real-life pose and the artist's depiction thereof). —David Levy 18:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, understand. Drmies, how would you word hook and caption then? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, I'd just say "pictured, on the left" or something like that--I think the reader who knows knows what's going on. Thank you, and thank you David Levy. Drmies (talk) 00:40, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Do me a favour for formality's sake: word it in an ALT2 and the image caption, so that a prep builder can take it from there. I can't approve ALT1 because I wrote it, + you didn't say that you like it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Drmies? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:06, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

ALT2: ~~... that Adriaan de Bruin ((ca. 1700-1766)(pictured, on left) was enslaved in Africa but ended up in Hoorn, in the Dutch Republic, where he married a local woman and ran a tobacco shop?~~
- Gerda Arendt, thank you. Maybe you can check how those dates should appear? Drmies (talk) 15:06, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
  Thank you for the offer. I believe that the years are not needed, when the image is used which I hope will. If not, I still don't think they are needed, because slavery gives it a time frame. They hold up the flow. If you believe a year is needed give one year, for "ended up", "married" or "ran a tobacco shop", - only the article has none of these years. Do we at least known when baptised? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
  
  ALT2a: ... that Adriaan de Bruin (pictured, on left) was enslaved in Africa but ended up in Hoorn in the Dutch Republic, where he married a local woman and ran a tobacco shop?
  
  ALT2b: ... that Adriaan de Bruin ((ca. 1700-1766) was enslaved in Africa but ended up in Hoorn, in the Dutch Republic, where he married a local woman and ran a tobacco shop? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
  
  , and open for new ideas --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)