- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:08, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh
edit
... that Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh who had a strange relationship with her governess Lina Schaeffer, though not formally called lesbian, spent all her adult life with the latter unconditionally?
Created by Nvvchar (talk). Self-nominated at 01:36, 21 June 2016 (UTC).
The article is long and new enough, but there are lots of issues with the writing, and the hook doesn't really make sense (nor do the corresponding passages in the article). I'm also concerned about the sourcing of the statement. Mangoe (talk) 00:10, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
- I have posted on GOC for c/e. Will be back after it is completed.Nvvchar. 02:35, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
- The hook is unintelligible. EEng 14:56, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
- The article has been copy edited by User:Corinne of GOC. I have struck out the original hook and suggesting ALT1 Hook
....that although not formally called a lesbian, Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh spent all her adult life with her former governess Lina Shafer?Nvvchar. 00:05, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but I don't know what it means to be "formally" called a lesbian, and I'd like to hear exactly how a RS juxtaposes the cohabitation against such ideas. EEng 00:16, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- From what I can see the whole lesbian thing is, at best, someone's wishful thinking. It's also a dull hook. I think it would be better to work with the Swiss treasure, though at this late hour I can't come up with something on the spot. Mangoe (talk) 03:27, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The article needs more editing. I added the amount of the inheritance to the last section, which at present is a bulky amount of text. I struck out the lesbian hooks and suggest something like this, although the Swiss francs figure quoted from the source looks like a mistake:
- ALT2:
... that 55 years after her death, Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh was found to have secreted away more than 1 million Swiss francs' worth of cash and jewels in a Swiss bank vault? Yoninah (talk) 22:38, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yoninah I have done some more c/e. Hopefully the right ones. According to Indian Today reference the assets valued were 1,37,323 Swiss Francs much less than one million. I could not find any other reference referring to 1 million. Pl see.Nvvchar. 02:31, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- @Nvvchar: I'm sorry, the figure of 1,37,323 doesn't make sense to me. Normally there are three digits after each comma. How much is this exactly, in words? Yoninah (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yoninah It is one hundred and thirty seven thousand three hundred and twenty three Swiss Francs. As of December 2001 it was equivalent to Indian Rs. 3.98 million. Hence, I suggest a slightly modified hook as:
- ALT2a ... that 55 years after her death, Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh was found to have secreted away cash and jewels in a Swiss bank vault, valued at about Rs. 4 million
, as of December 2001? Thanks.Nvvchar. 11:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, @Nvvchar:, I read it through again and it reads well. I still am puzzled by the placement of commas in the Swiss francs figure – shouldn't it be "137,323 Swiss Francs"? Your ALT2a is fine, though the December 2001 addition is wordy and, in my opinion, superfluous, so I struck it. Since I suggested the new hook, leaving it to another reviewer to sign off on this. Yoninah (talk) 22:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's all right, but only all right. Personally, I find "was found to have..." odd when referring to someone who was no longer living at the time. I am also puzzled by the use of Indian rupees to indicate the value of what Duleep Singh left in the Swiss bank. She spent most of her life in England and northern Europe, and the money ended up going to a family in Pakistan. I prefer either Swiss francs or British pounds, which I think are more familiar to most readers. I suggest:
- ALT3
...that in 1997 it was discovered that Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh had secreted away in a Swiss bank jewels and cash worth 137,323 Swiss francs? – Corinne (talk) 22:54, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the alt, @Corinne:, but it doesn't place the event in context, that she was dead for 55 years already. Yoninah (talk) 23:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)hook
- @Yoninah: Thanks. In view of above observation, I am suggesting a slightly modified ALT3a hook ... that in 1997 it was discovered that Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh who died in 1942 had secreted away in a Swiss bank jewels and cash worth 137,323 Swiss francs?Nvvchar. 01:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
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| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
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Overall: 
Passes DYK checklist. ALT 4 sounds good to me. It has been verified in the source. Good To Go. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:29, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- Pulled from prep. ALT4 is, unfortunately, inaccurate: the combined value of the bank account and the jewels from the vault were over 137,000 Swiss francs, but we have no idea how much was in the bank account, and how much was the value of the jewels. The so-called verification cited by Doug Coldwell gives no value at all that I could see in its account. A new hook is needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset, Yoninah, and Nvvchar: I am just going to throw this out as a possible ALT or something that might be a basis for other ALTs (of course I couldn't approve - but just giving ideas to make this work).
ALT5 ... that a dormant Swiss bank account was uncovered that had a value of over 137,000 francs that was in the name of a Princess of India and found 55 years after her death during World War II? ALT6 ... that a dormant Swiss bank account, not opened since World War II, was uncovered in 1997 that had a value of over 137,000 francs and was in the name of a Princess of India that died 55 years earlier?ALT7 ... that a dormant Swiss bank vault, not opened since the 1930s, was uncovered in 1997 that had a value of over 137,000 francs and was in the name of a Princess of India that died 55 years earlier?- The source for ALT7 hook is the last reference in the article #14 --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:19, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
Another reference is page 45 of Sikhs in Britain: The Making of a Community By Tatla --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
- Doug I appreciate your and everyone else's efforts on this hook – this is a tough one – but I think we're trying to pack too many details into it. I think only the most sparkling, amazing details should be included. It's just a hook, after all. I think Nvvchar's Alt2a is worded the best. The value figure can be adjusted so it is correct. – Corinne (talk) 14:39, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
- Per Corinne, I present ALT8, modeled on ALT2a but adjusted to refer to the Swiss currency number that is actually given in the sources (I have struck ALT7, which is quite convoluted, and ALT3 per Yoninah's comment):
- ALT8 ... that 55 years after her death, Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh was found to have secreted away cash and jewels valued at over 137,000 francs in a Swiss bank vault?
- New reviewer needed to check ALT8. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:48, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
- Full review already done; I am just checking ALT8. The hook is short enough and is sourced within the text. Well done to everyone for the efforts on getting this hook ready - it looks like it was a bit of challenge to word it. ツStacey (talk) 10:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
The article needs more editing. I added the amount of the inheritance to the last section, which at present is a bulky amount of text. I struck out the lesbian hooks and suggest something like this, although the Swiss francs figure quoted from the source looks like a mistake:
Passes DYK checklist. ALT 4 sounds good to me. It has been verified in the source. Good To Go. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:29, 9 August 2016 (UTC)