Template:Did you know nominations/Croatian Apoxyomenos
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Zanhe (talk) 17:09, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
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Croatian Apoxyomenos
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Head of the Croatian Apoxyomenos
- ... that the Croatian Apoxyomenos (head pictured), a 2000-year-old Ancient Greek bronze statue, was discovered on the sea bed by a Belgian tourist?
- Reviewed: Cordón del Azufre
- Comment: Disclosure: 1) the article is largely based on a translation from Croatian Wikipedia (which should be OK according to the DYK rules), and 2) its topic already appeared in a DYK hook for Apoxyomenos (the hooks are dissimilar, though, so this should be OK too).
Created by United Union (talk) and GregorB (talk). Nominated by GregorB (talk) at 20:59, 2 March 2016 (UTC).
Date and length verified. I believe the article is neutral and properly referenced. QPQ has been done and I think the hook is quite interesting. The photo has been released into the public domain by its uploader and author. However, I was able to detect some close paraphrasing issues, particularly in relation to this source. Please address these before the article can appear on the Main Page. — Toдor Boжinov — 10:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- The English certainly needs a light copyedit by a native speaker. Johnbod (talk) 14:47, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- After a cursory look, it appears that some close paraphrasing definitely exists (there are also some generic, descriptive fragments that happen to match the source but cannot reasonably be rephrased without harming the prose). Also, the English indeed could be better - I've made a number of fixes but sort of neglected making a more thorough CE pass. Anyway, I'll try to fix these issues, but I'll be a bit busy IRL so it might take 3 or 4 days or so, hope that's OK. GregorB (talk) 20:59, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, just let me know when you're ready. — Toдor Boжinov — 15:53, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
- Toдor, GregorB, it's now been over two weeks without any action on the article. Perhaps a deadline would be appropriate for progress to be made? BlueMoonset (talk) 01:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've arranged for an additional copyedit a while ago now. Since
it's not forthcomingit hasn't been completed, I'll do it myself, and the above remarks should be addressed by tomorrow. Will leave a message here when it's done. GregorB (talk) 08:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC) - TodorBozhinov, I've made some changes towards getting rid of close paraphrasing. Other minor tweaks have been applied too. I'm ready to address the remaining issues, if any. Thank you for your patience! GregorB (talk) 22:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks GregorB! it appears there is some progress with the prose. However, for certain phrases the paraphrasing is perhaps still a bit too close for my liking ("on the sea bed off the islet of Vele Orjule", "technical staff, raised the statue from the sea", "or to one of the sophisticated non-urban locations, such as the luxurious villa in Verige Bay on the island of Veli Brijun". I would welcome some more original prose that is clearly different in structure and vocabulary. — Toдor Boжinov — 09:40, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- What is unfortunate in this case is that the English article at h-r-z.hr is itself apparently a translation of other Croatian sources used in the article. For example, the "sophisticated locations" and the "luxurious villa" are described by Nenad Cambi, but it would seem then that the mere existence of the English article precludes us from using these phrases, although they are necessary for providing the context and cannot easily be paraphrased (a "luxurious villa" is a "luxurious villa", particularly if a source says so). What I'm saying here is not necessarily that the problem does not exist, but rather that it is difficult to fix. So, to keep it simple, I'm going to change the wording for essential descriptions and cut out the problematic non-essential stuff completely if necessary. Will be back in 24 hours at the latest. GregorB (talk) 11:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks! To be clear, I'm fine with a few short matching phrases, it's just that what I cited above are three occasions that match the source exactly for longer than 2-3 words. And this is slightly above my tolerance for close paraphrasing. Besides, words like "luxurious" and "sophisticated" are relatively easy to replace. — Toдor Boжinov — 15:33, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- I believe these changes should resolve the problem... GregorB (talk) 16:54, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks! To be clear, I'm fine with a few short matching phrases, it's just that what I cited above are three occasions that match the source exactly for longer than 2-3 words. And this is slightly above my tolerance for close paraphrasing. Besides, words like "luxurious" and "sophisticated" are relatively easy to replace. — Toдor Boжinov — 15:33, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- What is unfortunate in this case is that the English article at h-r-z.hr is itself apparently a translation of other Croatian sources used in the article. For example, the "sophisticated locations" and the "luxurious villa" are described by Nenad Cambi, but it would seem then that the mere existence of the English article precludes us from using these phrases, although they are necessary for providing the context and cannot easily be paraphrased (a "luxurious villa" is a "luxurious villa", particularly if a source says so). What I'm saying here is not necessarily that the problem does not exist, but rather that it is difficult to fix. So, to keep it simple, I'm going to change the wording for essential descriptions and cut out the problematic non-essential stuff completely if necessary. Will be back in 24 hours at the latest. GregorB (talk) 11:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks GregorB! it appears there is some progress with the prose. However, for certain phrases the paraphrasing is perhaps still a bit too close for my liking ("on the sea bed off the islet of Vele Orjule", "technical staff, raised the statue from the sea", "or to one of the sophisticated non-urban locations, such as the luxurious villa in Verige Bay on the island of Veli Brijun". I would welcome some more original prose that is clearly different in structure and vocabulary. — Toдor Boжinov — 09:40, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've arranged for an additional copyedit a while ago now. Since
- Toдor, GregorB, it's now been over two weeks without any action on the article. Perhaps a deadline would be appropriate for progress to be made? BlueMoonset (talk) 01:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, just let me know when you're ready. — Toдor Boжinov — 15:53, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
- After a cursory look, it appears that some close paraphrasing definitely exists (there are also some generic, descriptive fragments that happen to match the source but cannot reasonably be rephrased without harming the prose). Also, the English indeed could be better - I've made a number of fixes but sort of neglected making a more thorough CE pass. Anyway, I'll try to fix these issues, but I'll be a bit busy IRL so it might take 3 or 4 days or so, hope that's OK. GregorB (talk) 20:59, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
