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Template:Did you know nominations/Cross of Camargue and Anchored Cross

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

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Anchored Cross, Cross of Camargue

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Camargue cross
Camargue cross

... that the Cross of Camargue (pictured), with its tridents, cross, anchor and heart is a form of the Anchored Cross

  • ALT1:... that the Cross of Camargue (pictured), similar to an Anchored Cross, was designed to represent the region of Camargue and its herdsmen and fishermen, and the virtues of faith (represented by tridents on a Christian cross), hope (represented by the anchor), and charity (represented by heart of the The Three Marys)? "La croix Camarguaise". www.chevalcamargue.fr (in French). Retrieved 2019-07-20.
  • ALT2: that the Cross of Camargue (pictured), with its cross, and anchor is similar in form to the Anchored Cross?

Created/expanded by Evrik (talk). Self-nominated at 00:07, 4 September 2020 (UTC).

  • Cross of Camargue is new enough, and 5x expansion of Anchored Cross verified. Double QPQ for the double hook done. The main hook is ok for DYK rules, but ALT1 is far too long for DYK. Earwig found no copying for either article. Image is good at DYK size and appears properly licensed. In general, both articles appear adequately sourced. However, the main claim of the hook, that the Cross of Camargue was designed as a variant of the Anchored Cross, appears nowhere in the article on the Cross of Camargue. And although this claim, that the one cross is a variant of the other, does appear in the Anchored Cross article ("The region of Camargue in France created their own version of the cross"), it is not supported by the source given for this claim, which merely describes the Cross of Camargue without connecting it in any way to the history of the anchored cross. So the sourcing for this connection between the two crosses needs to be improved before this can be approved. The sourcing of the "Symbolism" section to Wiktionary also fails Wikipedia's requirements of reliable sourcing and needs to be replaced by a better source. Additionally, the linking of common and well-understood English words "trident", "cross", "anchor", and "heart", even though those links go to specific articles about the symbolism of those words, appears to violate WP:OVERLINK; I think only the two main hook items should be linked. And finally, the Cross of Camargue article has some unidiomatic English that should be fixed: "carried gardian's trident" needs an article and probably a better verb (one does not generally carry things in a workshop, except while working on them); "was inaugurated"..."are present" tense mismatch; "it is a copy still there today": is it still there today, or has it been replaced by a copy? —David Eppstein (talk) 20:50, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Issues:
main claim of the hook - struck Alt0 new Alt 2 proposed
The sourcing of the "Symbolism" - fixed
Overlinking - left that as it was.
unidiomatic English - fixed
@David Eppstein: I think I addressed the issues. --evrik (talk) 19:38, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
There is still no sourcing for the claim that the resemblance between the Cross of Camargue and the anchored cross is intentional rather than coincidental. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:42, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
I removed that claim as I can't source it. --evrik (talk) 19:50, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Ok, but it's still claimed by both of your updated hooks. Without that claim there is no reason to have both articles in a single DYK nomination. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:59, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Where is "to represent a relationship to the sea" in the Anchored Cross article? —David Eppstein (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
  • "The anchored cross is also referred to as the mariner's cross or St. Clement's Cross in reference to the way he was martyred - tied to an anchor and thrown from a boat into the Black Sea." --evrik (talk) 00:36, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
  • That's not a relationship to "the sea", meaning the seagoing life. It's a relationship to a specific saint and a specific sea. If mariners commonly view St. Clemens as a patron of mariners and wear the cross (or use it in mariners' churches) on that basis, it needs to be made more explicit and sourced. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:47, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Ok, ALT3 now adequately sourced in both articles. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:38, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
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