- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 04:58, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
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Ernest Fanelli
... that even though Ernest Fanelli's performance of Thèbes on 17 March 1912 was a triumphant success, it did not convince him to return to composition?Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/905497#metadata_info_tab_contents. Page 225-226 , Rosar, William (2001). "Fanelli, Ernest". Oxford Music Online. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.article.43856. ISBN 978-1-56159-263-0.
Improved to Good Article status by Wretchskull (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 20:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC).
Interesting life and work, detailed GA on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I am not happy with the hook, because until the last word, you give no clue that he is a composer, and Thèbes (needs italics) a composition. He could be an actor or pianist or any other performer. I guess "tone poem" might help. Can we even call the performance Fanelli's when Pierné conducted? - Perhaps his early "Impressionism" could interest more readers than return or not to composition. What do you think of his portrait here? - In the article (not needed for DYK approval): I am not sure that the list of compositions in a side box, with a background colour, is a good idea. How does that look on mobile? - How do you feel about an infobox? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with Gerda; the hook highlights the wrong thing. I think it would be better to mention that some saw Fanelli as the first Impressionist, as that is essentially the only reason he is notable. I'll pass on the infobox.. Wretchskull (talk) 09:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Wretchskull, please word a hook then. I can't or I could not review. I could help with formatting if needed. - Or how about you wording it, User:Onegreatjoke - I could make you an infobox in the simple style of Jean Sibelius whose birthday is today, if you don't have strong feelings against it. All recent FAs about composers have one, latest Artemy Vedel. We have readers from all over the world who come to the English Wikipedia because he has no article in their languages. They may not be good in English, and some information with parameters may help them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Not only is an infobox redundant and aesthetically unappealing (IMO), I also don't see how it could aid readers, especially non-natives. The date of birth & death are both in the first sentence and so any one who understands arabic numerals will understand what that means. It would be no different than if it were on an infobox, so I don't understand how non-natives will understand the infobox (which itself is written in parameters in English..) as opposed to prose...
- Anyways, heres my shot at the hook:
- ALT1 ... that Ernest Fanelli's composition Thèbes, written in 1886, utilizes musical elements considered to precurse Impressionism? Source: Adriano (2002). Anderson, Keith (ed.). "Fanelli: Symphonic Pictures - Bourgault-Duboudray: Rhapsodie cambodgienne | About this recording" (CD booklet). London: Marco Polo – via naxos.com.
- - Wretchskull (talk) 12:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
fine by me --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)]
- Wretchskull, please word a hook then. I can't or I could not review. I could help with formatting if needed. - Or how about you wording it, User:Onegreatjoke - I could make you an infobox in the simple style of Jean Sibelius whose birthday is today, if you don't have strong feelings against it. All recent FAs about composers have one, latest Artemy Vedel. We have readers from all over the world who come to the English Wikipedia because he has no article in their languages. They may not be good in English, and some information with parameters may help them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with Gerda; the hook highlights the wrong thing. I think it would be better to mention that some saw Fanelli as the first Impressionist, as that is essentially the only reason he is notable. I'll pass on the infobox.. Wretchskull (talk) 09:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
pinging @Gerda Arendt, Onegreatjoke, and Wretchskull: I am not seeing that the suggested hook is in the article. If it is it is too disjointed to find. Can someone check this? Bruxton (talk) 20:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- "Disjointed"?? - It's in one spot. look for "Thèbes is the piece that raised interest in the composer", there also the next sentence about the elements of Impressionism but this was before that term was used, therefore "precurse". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- It feels like an Easter egg hunt
but I will promote it and hope that it is just my own issue.Bruxton (talk) 22:43, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- It feels like an Easter egg hunt
- Leaving this for another promotor. Bruxton (talk) 22:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: The first paragraph states "Ernest Fanelli [...] is known for his works which have been considered as precursing Impressionism. He gained renown when his symphonic poem Thèbes premiered in Paris, a work incorporating elements associated with music ahead of its time, such as unique harmonies, extended chords, and polytonality". I don't understand the confusion.. Wretchskull (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Wretchskull, the reviewer and promoter don't have to check where the fact is, but where it is with the reference, and that's not in the lead, but in the context I pointed out, and - yes - in an extended GA perhaps not trivial to find for someone not knowing what exactly to look for. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: The first paragraph states "Ernest Fanelli [...] is known for his works which have been considered as precursing Impressionism. He gained renown when his symphonic poem Thèbes premiered in Paris, a work incorporating elements associated with music ahead of its time, such as unique harmonies, extended chords, and polytonality". I don't understand the confusion.. Wretchskull (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt You should green tick this again s that another promotor can have a look. Bruxton (talk) 16:45, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- (You could have removed the sign of your concern once it was settled.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)