Template:Did you know nominations/Etheostoma variatum

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:55, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Etheostoma variatum

(

)

... that Etheostoma variatum (pictured) bury and abandon their children?

Reviewed: Hemlock Hoax, the Detective

Created by Spirit of Eagle (talk). Self nominated at 01:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC).

} Good length, good sources, no major issues to report. It's a go for promotion. ViperSnake151 Talk 02:12, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

This may sound picky, but the article says they bury and abandon their eggs, which is a bit different from burying their (presumably) live "children". Maybe the hook should be modified. EEng (talk) 04:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

That is actually kind of the point. My claim is, strictly speaking, entirely accurate as they do in fact bury then abandon their offspring (as cited in the source). I've just stated it in a way to make it more interesting for DYK purposes so that more people will open the article and learn about the fish. I've seen plenty of DYKs do this, although I'd be happy to address this if you strongly object. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 11:55, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. Are eggs "offspring"/"children"/"young"? Perhaps it depends on whether they're fertilized or not. We better be careful not to somehow wander into a debate over abortion! How about "bury and abandon their progeny" -- that should get a lot of clicks. I agree with you about latitude in hooks, BTW. I guess the reference to "children" is what caught my eye in the first place, but now I'm at sea about this. So to speak.

I guess "offspring" sounds a bit less like live, swimming young, so maybe that would be better. But you decide. EEng (talk) 12:31, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I've changed children to offspring in the hook above. This should be both strictly biologically accurate (as in it does not refer to a specific developmental stage) and interesting to read. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 20:46, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

To avoid confusion I've restored the original hook to what it was when nominated; Spirit's new hook is below. EEng (talk) 04:40, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that Etheostoma variatum (pictured) bury then abandon their offspring?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the "no specific developmental stage". It's nice to do a little extra work and get it just right. EEng (talk) 20:54, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Eggs are not "offspring", I think the proposed hook is misleading and shouldn't be accepted. We don't want our readership to feel hoodwinked after taking the trouble to open an article. Gatoclass (talk) 04:04, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

According to Spirit offspring is ambiguous as to developmental stage, and I guess I went along. But if not, what should we say? EEng (talk) 04:40, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Eggs. But the hook is not very interesting anyway. Suggested alt:

ALT2: * ... that the presence of the Variegate darter in rivers and streams is often viewed as an indicator of good water quality?

I might add that the switching between the terms "darter" and "dace" in the article needs to be explained or fixed. Gatoclass (talk) 05:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

ALT3 ...that when Etheostoma variatum are seen, rivers are (probably) clean?

I've rephrased Hook #2 to make it a bit more interesting. (Hopefully you don't mind rhyming). Also, I'll be fixing the dace/darter issue shortly. It should state darter throughout. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:14, 3 July 2014 (UTC) Update: Every mention of "dace" now reads "darter". Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I like the rhyming, and to avoid spoiling the rhythm, I'd drop the (probably), since the reader's native shrewdness will tell him that a rule like this can only be a guide, not absolute. EEng (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Calling reviewer ViperSnake151. EEng (talk) 21:54, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm fine with that. ViperSnake151 Talk 02:59, 14 July 2014 (UTC)